Too school-like?

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Sam Wallis
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Re: Too school-like?

Post by Sam Wallis » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:15 pm

makr wrote:To be fair, the schoolish requirements are kinda the point. These badges are meant to be difficult for the age group. The Awards iirc were meant for the cubs that did all the badges and wanted more. They are meant to be challenging, because that's how you learn. You better believe that those kids are now better off for their middle school experiences for what they've just done. Nor are they really meant for the cub meetings, you're supposed to show the initiative to get these badges.

Maybe this is just what my experiences were when I was a cub. Results may differ

Things could be dificult without being boring. Cubs might find it very hard to go on a 10 km hike but they wont be bored.
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norma
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Re: Too school-like?

Post by norma » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:07 pm

Angus Bickerton wrote: (brief aside: anyone notice that despite their being 8 awards, you can put only 6 on the Scout shirt, because there are only six awards in the new badges?)

They changed the awards ... there arent 8 anymore, a couple of them got 'down graded' to badges (Emergency Preparedness and another one, think the trails one)

Cub Scouts uniform badge update
To align with the six "Star Badge System", consideration was given to reducing the number of Cub Scout Activity Awards from eight to six. "Emergency Preparedness" became an activity badge within "Home and Community". "Canadian Heritage Trails" was amalgamated into the "Canadian Camper Award". (http://secure.campaigner.com/Campaigner ... 2mz-Y8P7j9)

Canadian Arts, Canadian camper, Canadian Family Care, Canadian Healthy Living, Canadian Wilderness, World Citizen are the awards now

(i think its interesting that they are all "Canadian" until you get to the "world citizen", the cub program seems to focus on Canada, with the scout program moving to the "world" other than this "World Citizen" award and the world cubbing/religion badges)

scouterguider
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Re: Too school-like?

Post by scouterguider » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:39 pm

The 2 awards (Emergency Preparedness, and whatever) that are being downgraded to badges, as far as I'm concerned, would need new requirements to make them more in-line with the other badges... at least in my opinion.

Generally, I go with what is in the Cub book of the cub, with the option to do new badges or new requirements from information from the official Scouts website. I'm assuming they aren't going to reprint the cub manuals until the program review changes are implemented.... so I'd consider those 2 badges awards still.... the big problem being that there aren't new-style badges for them as awards....

Sam Wallis
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Re: Too school-like?

Post by Sam Wallis » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:00 am

so, the program review hasnt happened but we have changed the badges and awards? good to know. I have been using my sons six year old cub book to plan meetings and the year. we plan on 2 stars per year, and a few awards badges etc. now I could have planned stuff that gets some cubs a badge and it doesnt get others the badge?
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RakelaK
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Re: Too school-like?

Post by RakelaK » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:34 am

The website still shows 8 awards on the badge requirement list:

http://www.scouts.ca/ca/cub-scouts-badge-requirements

Its only when you go to the scoutshop.ca to buy the Awards that you notice that Emergency Prep was downgraded from award to badge and Heritage Trails is gone.

The scout wiki doesn't reflect that change either:

http://wiki.scouts.ca/en/Canadian_Heritage_Trails_Award

Speaking of which.... living in a 400 year old settlement/City.... that Award's last 3 requirements made for great programming:

3 Locate a trail or waterway and learn about its heritage importance.
4 Travel on this route, and list some of the significant natural or heritage features along the way.
5 While travelling on this route, participate in a project that helps restore, clean or preserve the section you are on.


So if it is gone... where have those been moved to.... or where are they going to be moved to???

We're still going to do a Spring outdoor event themed around those 3 requirements... would be nice if they meant something that can be put on the sleeve.

Rick Gruchy
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Re: Too school-like?

Post by Rick Gruchy » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:21 pm

Sam Wallis wrote:so, the program review hasnt happened but we have changed the badges and awards? good to know. I have been using my sons six year old cub book to plan meetings and the year. we plan on 2 stars per year, and a few awards badges etc. now I could have planned stuff that gets some cubs a badge and it doesnt get others the badge?

Hi Sam,

Just so folks know, any recent changes in badges are not related to the Program Review. At this time, the program review team is not really looking at badge requirements. This will be done by Section Teams and a subgroup that is working on the adventure skills.

Rick

scouterguider
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Re: Too school-like?

Post by scouterguider » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:44 pm

Yes - but the problem/question is...

The current Cub Handbook has 8 awards, but you can only buy 6 award badges in the new style. There has been a mention that they are reducing the number of awards from 8 to 6 so there would be 1 award per star.... but this hasn't been put in the cub books or on the website... yet any cubs earning the other 2 awards wearing the new uniform and getting new badges don't have a corresponding award badge to put on the uniform for their work.

and if they are changing the emergency prepardness award to a badge, then I would think the requirements would need to be changed to match the difficulty of a badge instead of an award....

Oh, and as for using a 6 year old cub book to do planning - no, it is out-of-date. most would be the same, but there were new badges added in 2009, and possibly some requirements changing as well. There were new badges added in 2011 as well (World Conservation removed, Scout Environment Award added, Climate Change badge changed from a crest to a badge, etc.) - these changes are NOT in any cub handbook - you can download the pages from the scouts.ca website. (I suspect they meant to have a new handbook for Sept 2011 and didn't have it ready - no proof, just suspesion...)

And yes - sometimes cubs in the same group are using different requirements for the same badge... I always use the requirements from the cubs own handbook (assuming they got a current one when they joined) - or they can use the new requirements getting them from the scouts.ca website. I allow the choice. That always seemed the most fair...

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Re: Too school-like?

Post by Sam Wallis » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:22 pm

the 2 year old cub book is identical except for the climate change and emergency preparedness. if the new book doesnt have whats currently on the website then the kids will be confused again. and yes, whatever is in the book the youth have we use, or if they were to do it all from online then whatever is there we use.
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ayates
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Re: Too school-like?

Post by ayates » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:24 pm

RakelaK wrote:The website still shows 8 awards on the badge requirement list:
<snip>
The scout wiki doesn't reflect that change either:
Whose responsibility is it at national to update these?

scouterguider
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Re: Too school-like?

Post by scouterguider » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:30 pm

The 2011 cub book is identical to the 2009 cub book except the front cover says to go to the Scouts Canada website for the new uniform information. The badge changes that occured Sep 2011 are ONLY on the website (I think just the Scout Environment Award and the Climate Change Badges, and that the World Conservation Badge is being phased out...) the change to the Emergency Preparedness badge/award isn't ANYWHERE except I know that somewhere either on the website (not with the requirements) it says about them changing from 8 awards to 6... and then the changes to the type of badge for the uniform.

As for whose responsibility to keep the badge requirements up to date on the Scouts Canada website and the Wiki???

Scouts Canada official Website - someone at Scouts Canada of course.

The Wiki? - the volunteers that created it / edit it.

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RakelaK
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Re: Too school-like?

Post by RakelaK » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:27 am

I edit the Wik fairly often.... but without a reference to tag on the statement "This award has been discontinued"... I wasn't about to stick it in just yet.

On the regular Wikipedia the policies governing such a change are called WP:V (content must be Verifiable) and WP:REF (add References to verify newly added content)

To put in a line that says "since this Award is no longer available for purchase it is assumed that it has been discontinued" is the equivilent of a "WP:NOR" violation ( WP:NOR policy = "No Original Research" )

These are Wikipedia policies and not scout wiki policies... but they are pretty much 'common sense' policies so just as applicable in any Wiki based information site. Someone give me a link which verifies that the CHT award has been killed... and, even better... show me where the requirements have been migrated to... and I will gladly update the scout Wik to show... including a reference. :D :D :D

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Re: Too school-like?

Post by scouterguider » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:38 am

Yes of course - you can't change the Wiki until the official site or the official program books have a change...

To me, (and this is just postulation) - I think they planned the change - but something has stopped it from happening.... either the handbook not being ready for printing (although of course there are other changes on the website that didn't get stopped by the handbook not printing) - or it got put on the back-burner because of the program review (but the new version badges for the 2 awards in question never got designed because they weren't going to exist...)

Basically it sounds to me like either a lack of communication somewhere, or a change that was only partly implemented either because of a "pause", or an oversight.

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SteveMatheson
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Re: Too school-like?

Post by SteveMatheson » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:06 am

You absolutely can change the wiki before the official publications change, but not before there is an official decree that such a change has been made.

The advantage of the wiki is that we can change things while they are in flux. A good recent example was the Group Youth Commissioner, which many of us needed guidance on before National had made something available. http://wiki.scouts.ca/en/GYC

It is good that we have a tool that to allow us to react quickly as things change.

As for the change to Cub Scout Awards, that is sufficiently drastic that I would be much more comfortable cited some (anything) official.
http://wiki.scouts.ca/en/Emergency_Preparedness_Badge references Scout Scene Vol. 1 Issue 8 - Dec. 2011 (with the campaigner link http://secure.campaigner.com/Campaigner ... 2mz-Y8P7j9), which just says the following:
To align with the six "Star Badge System", consideration was given to reducing the number of Cub Scout Activity Awards from eight to six. "Emergency Preparedness" became an activity badge within "Home and Community". "Canadian Heritage Trails" was amalgamated into the "Canadian Camper Award".
Is there an official repository of Scout Scene issues?

Is there anything else official regarding these changes to the Cub Scout Awards?

What does "amalgamated into the Canadian Camper Award" mean? Has that Award changed in requirements?
Steve Matheson
Group Commissioner, 3rd Eastern Passage
Nova Scotia

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RakelaK
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Re: Too school-like?

Post by RakelaK » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:00 pm

What I'd like to see... if the Heritage Trails Awards was truly amalgamated into the Camper Award... where did those 3 cornerstone requirements of the Heritage Trails Award go???

3 Locate a trail or waterway and learn about its heritage importance.
4 Travel on this route, and list some of the significant natural or heritage features along the way.
5 While travelling on this route, participate in a project that helps restore, clean or preserve the section you are on.

Is there anywhere that shows new documentation of the Camper Award where it shows those requirements were truly 'amalgamated?'

To say the award is amalgamated... and then lose those 3 awesome Award requirements completely isn't amalgamation, its elimination... and that would be a big loss because its such a nice rounded little Award to plan some outings around. We'll continue to do them regardless. Would be nice if it meant a check-mark'd requirement for the kids though.

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Re: Too school-like?

Post by Roxybeaver1 » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:33 pm

While looking for ideas for the World Citizen Award, I found this thread - The Canadian Heritage Trails Award is still in ScoutsTracker. But the actual award is no longer available? I was thinking of aiming for that one this year with the Cubs as it is an easy one to do.

Indeed, I could not find it online but there it is on ScoutsTracker.

Has it been replaced by anything else? The old award truly discontinued? Darn!!

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