Too school-like?

A place to share program ideas. Subdivided as needed for popular categories.
ayates
Posts: 642
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 6:48 am
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Too school-like?

Post by ayates » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:54 am

Wasn't it the hope that people would put write-ups like the above (excellent!) in the wiki?

scouterguider
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:52 pm
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Too school-like?

Post by scouterguider » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:12 am

Thanks - that theme was definitely a winner with the Cubs. Oh, btw - we would do brainstorming with the cubs for themes they might like to do.

I remember we also did a Spy theme one year with the cubs - this was a great theme for purple star and blue star type work as well (although we would mix in various badges like always) because it could all be done as a "proving you are Canadian" or sometimes pretending we were at a foreign/enemy country - discovering things about the enemy. (Like we could go to the police station pretending it was an enemy country (but making sure not to let the police know or we would be caught) - to determine how effective the law enforcement is. Cubs in general love to pretend and play-act... and so many badge requirements can be done enjoyably when pretending.

I never posted writeups in the Wiki as all this was done before the wiki existed.... I had considered at some point to put one in the "leader" magazine, but never got "a round-tuit"

Hm - other themes from the top of my head...

Treasure Hunters
Underwater theme
Klondike
Explorers of a previously undiscovered country
Jungle Book (generally first one for the year... then some hints of this throughout the year)
Scientists (needing to solve some national crisis)
United Nations (mainly to do that one badge requirement in the Award...)
Olympics (besides the obvious Red Star connections, there is some good purple star possibilities with representing your country...)
Astronaut Training (good red star, black star, purple star links here)

and anything else that tickles the imagination.

I will always say that a mixture of stars each year can be a lot more fun than doing the 2 stars a year method... if done with imagination, usually with a theme.

User avatar
Scouter Richie
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:40 am
anti_spambot: 7
Location: Aberdeen, Saskatchewan

Re: Too school-like?

Post by Scouter Richie » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:51 am

I think that working on two stars as a group each year and then pointing out to the cubs the badge requirements you just happen to meet by having fun is the way to go. Give preference to the badges in your selected stars when picking the fun activities but others will be done as well.


I started the year with the intent of formatting all of my meeting plans like jumpstarts so that they could be posted to the wiki at the end of the year. I've fallen a bit behind in updating them with notes about what we would change for next time and all of the details so that others can reproduce the night. Generally we picked a requirement or two for each meeting and then make the entire night fun.

The Sask Cub Camp is medieval themed this year so we have been incorporating a medieval thing each month. When the cubs have had tasks to complete at home we called them quests. @scouterguider You make using themes sound so easy that I am going to try and incorporate them more.
YIS
Richie
Deputy Council Youth Commissioner - Youth Training & Special Events
Saskatchewan Council

Sam Wallis
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:46 pm
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Too school-like?

Post by Sam Wallis » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:59 am

If anyone wants themes to go with a particular star or requirement I am sure someone has one. while you could adapt any theme to any star with work some flow natualy. when the theme fits the activities and requirements a camp or meeting becomes magical.

The best camp I ever was at was Tawney star focused, and i must say right off, that is one of the stars I dont like.
Truth is a perception, and a individual perception is their truth

Angus Bickerton
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:55 pm
anti_spambot: 7
Location: Brockville, Ontario

Re: Too school-like?

Post by Angus Bickerton » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:00 am

Sam Wallis wrote:The best camp I ever was at was Tawney star focused, and i must say right off, that is one of the stars I dont like.
Tell us more, Sam! Personally, I like Art and Crafts, but there is a block for a lot of people who think it is boring. Anything that helps engage kids on this aspect of the Cub program would be helpful.
Angus Bickerton
Troop Scouter
Brockville Troop
1st Brockville Group Committee
1st Gilwell 2011 (Colony) 2013 (Pack)

There is no armour made that can withstand the truth - Karsa Orlong

ayates
Posts: 642
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 6:48 am
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Too school-like?

Post by ayates » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:03 am

Angus Bickerton wrote:Personally, I like Art and Crafts, but there is a block for a lot of people who think it is boring. Anything that helps engage kids on this aspect of the Cub program would be helpful.
I think there needs to be a distinction between "Arts & Crafts" and let's say "Model Building". Arts & crafts I define as things such as gluing leaves to a paper plate, and other such tasks that (IMHO) have no real objective. I called all our Beaver parents one fall, who had not re-registered their kids in Beavers, to find out the reason why. The universal response was "too much arts & crafts". We never did stuff like that in our Cub program, but that is not to say I don't like get kids building stuff. In fact, getting kids building stuff is one of my key objectives; hardly any kids have hobbies such as that these days. So in Cubs we did everything from paper airplanes, to paper rockets, to balsa/tissue airplanes, to bird houses/CD holders, to miniature catapults.


Allan.

Angus Bickerton
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:55 pm
anti_spambot: 7
Location: Brockville, Ontario

Re: Too school-like?

Post by Angus Bickerton » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:30 am

From Wikipedia:

Arts and crafts comprise a whole host of activities and hobbies that are related to making things with one's hands and skill. These can be sub-divided into handicrafts or "traditional crafts" (doing things the old way) and "the rest". Some crafts have been practised for centuries, while others are modern inventions, or popularisations of crafts which were originally practised in a very small geographic area.

The lame 'crafts' you describe Allan are anything but, and there are loads of better crafts for Beavers to do.

Model building is a very small part of "Arts and Crafts", but it is something that will interest cubs. Other things that are included in Arts and Crafts that would interest cubs, imo: painting, pottery, cabinetry, furniture-making, sculpture, metal work, black smithing, model building, rope work (macrame done with paracord is a survival skill: Cobra braid belts/wristbands, can provide a ready source of rope in case of need for emergency shelter), rope construction, post-and-beam models, leather work (i.e. belts, sheaths, etc.), camp crafts, etc.

Take a group of cubs to a blacksmith/foundry, let them lift a 5-pound hammer, see a real blacksmith make something, etc. Arts and Crafts can be worked into almost everything we do. I remember as a scout making a rolling cart, with which we picked up a scouter from another troop, delivered him to our camp, then fed him dinner while he sat on a swing-bench we had also made, and then returned him to his camp on the cart. The cart was made entirely from poplar sticks/logs, and bailer twine, but is was a CRAFT.
Angus Bickerton
Troop Scouter
Brockville Troop
1st Brockville Group Committee
1st Gilwell 2011 (Colony) 2013 (Pack)

There is no armour made that can withstand the truth - Karsa Orlong

Sam Wallis
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:46 pm
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Too school-like?

Post by Sam Wallis » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:37 pm

see below an outline of our winter camp for jan 2011. some of it is hype to the cubs. sure we stayed up late, but we always stay up later than normal for 8 year olds at camp. I put a few notes in on how things went. other than Akela missing the concert to work on the camp septic system it was great for all. chosing songs that didnt have anything questionable took a while but it was all good and the parrents loved it.





\m/ Camp Heavy Metal \m/

A totally different camp. At this camp we will cover off many of the requirements for the Tawny Star, as well as having a blast.

Tawny Star
A6 Make a musical instrument
A8 songwriting
A9 Creative arts
B3 (mural)

Entertainer Badge
1, 2, 3, 4,
Handicraft 2,

Parts of
Musician badge
Winter Cubbing
Camping
Hiking

Intro
This camp will be a totally different experience for you all. We will abandon many but not all our normal camp rules. We will still respect and obey our leaders, but we will smash the standard schedule and activities on the Alter of ROCK and ROLL!!!!

We will sleep late like true rock stars, party hard all day and all night. We will cap the camp off with a cranking rock concert.

Friday night we will set up our bunks, get into our camp sixes and then work on a creative art piece, you can make or draw anything you want using any of the materials here. At all times in this camp we will have music playing to help keep the creative juices flowing. (create a mural)

Saturday when we get up we will eat breakfast, and then divide into our groups for the following activities

• Rehearsal (chosing and rehearsing 3 songs for concert (campfire)
• On tour (a hike, but named to fit the theme
• Wardrobe (t shirt craft)

After lunch we will rehearse our set list for the concert, attend a guitar building workshop play games (wide game) and hang out (free time)

Guitar building. Leader with a woodshop cut out guitar bodies from ¼ inch plywood, sanded and primed. Cubs painted to their liking and installed strings (wires from phone cabling.

After our evening meal we will hike to our concert where each group will play us a few songs. Of course since you are all the stars of the show you need an opening act, the leaders will open for you.

Sixes

Judas Priest
Iron Maiden
Metallica


Each six will chose some songs from the group they are named after and play a set (air band style) at the evening camp fire. Leaders formed 2 groups and did the opening act. All but the key leader for each opening act were not informed of the songs so they didn’t look too polished and make the cubs nervous.

For those cubs who are early risers there will be poker playing, song writing and snacks in the mess hall before breakfast (did not happen)


Now… For those about to Rock….We Salute you \m/!!!!



Notes

Flash bombs at campfire or if indoors on walk to camp fire. Did not happen wind chill was probably -30. Stayed indoors.
Leaders set list consists of newer songs, if many leaders 2 groups. Only 2 leaders knew any heavy metal tunes.


Sunday we return to our normal activities, and mention badge requirements covered off during camp.
Truth is a perception, and a individual perception is their truth

Angus Bickerton
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:55 pm
anti_spambot: 7
Location: Brockville, Ontario

Re: Too school-like?

Post by Angus Bickerton » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:17 am

OOOOOOO!!! That is very cool! I could really get into that one, and you could add all sorts of different tweaks to put your own Pack's flair into it.

I'm stealing this idea, lock, stock and two smoking barrels, and bringing it to our Sixers Council!

Now, what leader can I get to dress up like Angus Young?
Angus Bickerton
Troop Scouter
Brockville Troop
1st Brockville Group Committee
1st Gilwell 2011 (Colony) 2013 (Pack)

There is no armour made that can withstand the truth - Karsa Orlong

Sam Wallis
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:46 pm
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Too school-like?

Post by Sam Wallis » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:41 am

Just be warned, jumping around like a lead singer for 2 songs is not as easy as it looks. even without singing I was out of breath.

my band did right to rock, by keel, and another way to die, by disturbed. for those of you who dont know disturbed its about damaging our environment.

the obvious concert closer was metalica, enter sandman, a heavy metal lulaby. of course we preped the kids during the rehearsal for that.

dont assign each kid a position, have them rotate. its great fun.

I had a pregnant lead guitarist sliding accross the stage on her knees (I noticed when her daughter in the front row yelled out "mommy you'll hurt the baby" and I had a bassist bring a guide dog on stage to help him strum the instrument. I cant find our schedule for events, but I probably could recreate it if it helps.
Truth is a perception, and a individual perception is their truth

bcbagheera
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:50 pm
anti_spambot: 7
Location: Surrey, BC

Re: Too school-like?

Post by bcbagheera » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:08 pm

I agree some badges can seem to be "TOO" school like, but tell me, would you go on a week long canoe trip in unknown territory without doing at least SOME research first? If we put the "book" learning into context, it can still be appropriate.

norma
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:03 am
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Too school-like?

Post by norma » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:52 pm

"make a presentation about ..." this CAN be a school like presentation or ...


the rock concert was a presentation ... do you think those cubs thought that all day they had been working on a "make a presentation about ..." type activity?

thinking of it as the cub has to go home and get some bristle board and stick pictures and text on there ... then stand up and give a speech then most cubs wouldn't want to be doing that

but have them put together a game based on the information ... find some other way to 'present' the information to others ... a skit, a game show, a song and dance, a wide game ... all of these are methods of presenting information to others that are more interesting than having someone stand in front of a group of people sitting crossed legged and bleary eyed .... and all of them are not very 'school like' ... but its the cubs that have found the information and have found a way to pass it on to the rest of the pack

Sam Wallis
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:46 pm
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Too school-like?

Post by Sam Wallis » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:53 am

Norma I hadnt thought about it that way, but your absolutly right. a very good point.
Truth is a perception, and a individual perception is their truth

kaa27th
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:58 pm
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Too school-like?

Post by kaa27th » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:32 am

That IS a good point. I never thought of it that way.
YIS
Akela (formerly Kaa),
Peterborough, ON

Angus Bickerton
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:55 pm
anti_spambot: 7
Location: Brockville, Ontario

Re: Too school-like?

Post by Angus Bickerton » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:50 pm

Okay, anybody have a good idea for that UN night that we have to have if any cub is to get their World Citizen Award (Req. 4)? I looked for a jumpstart, because this is the LAST requirement standing in the way of my daughter being a 6-star/8-award cub (brief aside: anyone notice that despite their being 8 awards, you can put only 6 on the Scout shirt, because there are only six awards in the new badges?). My thought was to run a cub meeting at home with some of her friends, but I could find nothing.

She ended up doing about 3 hours of research and making a bristol board presentation, and as a result learned a lot more about the UN than anyone her age, but... IT WAS TOO SCHOOL-LIKE! She worked hard on it, and will be testing for the award this week, but the point of cubs is to be fun. There needs to be alternatives to requirements like this one, where it requires a cub "to attend a cub meeting that...". That sort of wording needs to be chucked out.

We won't be getting a new cub book for at least 2 years (after the Program Review), so we are stuck with what we have. Anyway, it would have been nice to do something fun with my daughter instead of giving her a school project. Anyone have any ideas for this UN night?
Angus Bickerton
Troop Scouter
Brockville Troop
1st Brockville Group Committee
1st Gilwell 2011 (Colony) 2013 (Pack)

There is no armour made that can withstand the truth - Karsa Orlong

scouterguider
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:52 pm
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Too school-like?

Post by scouterguider » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:46 pm

Oh, I HATE that requirement in the World Citizen Award....

I never figured out a great way to do it as a leader (and I tried to run themes for all sorts of requirements...) - I know I'd try to get the cubs to work on the "World Cubbing Badge" and have them pick out countries they were interested in etc... the UN cub night was supposed to have them come with stuff about their country etc, and it generally flopped...

And I admit that I'm hoping that the cub leaders of my son/grandson's pack are going to do it by the end of the year... (they are doing Purple Star this year) - so I can mark it off an not worry about it as a parent.... I have my doubts.

Sam Wallis
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:46 pm
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Too school-like?

Post by Sam Wallis » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:07 pm

we did this about 2 years ago, but we got each six to do it as a group, break out to research and then present and discuss as a group. it was a pain. I am not sure how well we learned, or taught the other sixes as they did it.
Truth is a perception, and a individual perception is their truth

Angus Bickerton
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:55 pm
anti_spambot: 7
Location: Brockville, Ontario

Re: Too school-like?

Post by Angus Bickerton » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:35 am

I am definitely going to raise the "too school like" issue in the Program Review. My daughter tested her World Citizen Award last night, getting her 8th award (in the nick of time: she will be going up and invested as a Scout on May 1!), but it was as if she was doing a school project. Scouting is about "informal education", which I take to mean doing fun stuff which has a by-product of learning about the world and yourself. Completing this in the absence of an actual cub meeting was hard work, and while interesting for her, it wasn't a lot of fun.

Anyway, she will get the badge next week (we toured the Water Treatment plant last night, so no badge box). I'm just itching to post a picture of her sash afterwards. She finishes her RiL this weekend, too.

Darn, I'm proud of that kid. 8-)
Angus Bickerton
Troop Scouter
Brockville Troop
1st Brockville Group Committee
1st Gilwell 2011 (Colony) 2013 (Pack)

There is no armour made that can withstand the truth - Karsa Orlong

User avatar
makr
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:05 am
anti_spambot: 0
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Contact:

Re: Too school-like?

Post by makr » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:06 pm

To be fair, the schoolish requirements are kinda the point. These badges are meant to be difficult for the age group. The Awards iirc were meant for the cubs that did all the badges and wanted more. They are meant to be challenging, because that's how you learn. You better believe that those kids are now better off for their middle school experiences for what they've just done. Nor are they really meant for the cub meetings, you're supposed to show the initiative to get these badges.

Maybe this is just what my experiences were when I was a cub. Results may differ

User avatar
RakelaK
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:07 pm
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Too school-like?

Post by RakelaK » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:29 pm

I pretty much agree with ^

I stated it before... there are sections of Cub's Badgework (ugh, Purple) which are very school like... and not easy to program sometimes... or make fun and challenging. And at the same time... the 'meat' that they get from that... the citizenship/spirituality/community-service stuff... that is the part that will carry over as much as anything else when it comes to them earning their CSAs when they get to Scouts.

I can honestly say.. even with my outdoorsy/sporty Cubs who think the only purpose for air is to blow up a football... have never cast a truly disparaging remark about that side of the programming. Maybe its just the way we incorporate it into our program (we never devote a season to it.. it is like "fall back" activities that are spaced over a period of time) Maybe we find activities that try to grasp even a tiny piece of fun? Or maybe its just that we never ever exceed their attention span with that stuff. (over 15 minutes and they get fidgety)... but that is the truth. They've never complained.

Some of the kids who are "strugglers" when it comes to the outdoor adventure/pioneering/camping/hiking/watercraft etc elements.... they will say it was their favourite Star to work on. I would never want to discriminate against those kids just to make the job of the leaders a little easier. Which is where a lot of the whining is coming from... the leaders (incl me sometimes).... but not the kids, so much.

Its like when I started engineering and saw that at some point I had to take a European history course and a second??? My brother, 9 years my senior and a graduated engineer, just said.. "they do that to make you a more rounded person by the time you finish." Didn't bother me, I loved European history... and I was already bilingual. But I had lots of classmates who hated it.

So maybe that's what those elements are for in Cubs or Scouts? And whether I like them or not... if they make for better, more rounded and community minded youth... and provides foundations for CSAs, QVs and DoEs... I am not about to diss them completely.

Post Reply