Shared Leadership

Discussions about the 2012 Program Review
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Rick Gruchy
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Shared Leadership

Post by Rick Gruchy » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:43 pm

At our recent Program Review meeting the subject of using a Shared Leadership Model in Sixes came up. Simply stated, would we provide more leadership opportunities for Cub Scouts if we move away from appointing Sixers and Seconds to a model where leadership of the Six is shared by all the third year Cub Scouts in that Six.

Personally, I am on the fence and can think of strengths in the Shared Leadership Model and the traditional Six Leadership method we are currently using.

Please let us know what you think about this.

Rick

norma
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Re: Shared Leadership

Post by norma » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:43 am

I think it could be a good possibility for smaller groups that have a large number of 3rd years and not very many Sixes.

But why wouldn't you just rotate the Sixers? Change Sixers every 2-3 months to allow each Cub experience the leadership role.

In the end it depends on what the purpose of having a Sixer and Second, and also what you are hoping them to get out of having the leadership experience.

Both models have pros and cons.

But at that age, it might be better to keep the Sixer, Second model as the 'traditional' model, with rotating the Sixer if you have a lot of 3rd years in a given Pack. There are a lot of youth that wouldn't be able to 'get' the leadership if it was a shared model. Some of the other Cubs who have a stronger personality would be able to overcome the less forceful youth. Those that could be awesome leaders, if they are given the reins and the others are 'forced' to step back.

2HC-OldChil
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Re: Shared Leadership

Post by 2HC-OldChil » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:20 am

When I was in Cubs there existed a Six of Sixers - called the Senior Sixers because of the load of 3rd year capable Sixers. They were the Senior in all ways but were challenged to do everything twice at a game for example to "level" the game.

I use to have the Duty Sixer run the opening and then the Second at closing, to spread out the duties and groom the next leaders. Post New Years, I had the Second run the Six and the Sixer picked the Cub (not the Second) to do closing. Not always successful but it gave those ready, the audience they desired.

I like the concept of shared - assign a task to each capable older Cub so that they can succeed, not fail. Get them into a Leader meeting (Sixer Council) and ask their opinions and let them pick their task for the month. All good tests and character builders. It extends to Camp nicely as well.

If you have a large group of third years - set up the link to the Scout level so they get to visit and play as a group and it should increase the desire to move onto Scouts.

ayates
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Re: Shared Leadership

Post by ayates » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:04 am

Rick Gruchy wrote:would we provide more leadership opportunities for Cub Scouts if we move away from appointing Sixers and Seconds to a model where leadership of the Six is shared by all the third year Cub Scouts in that Six
I think we actually need to motivate leaders to utilise sixers more, not less. I suspect that in many (most?) packs, sixers are symbolic only and are not actually used in any leadership role. Kids feel proud to be picked for a leadership position. It is that feeling, and use of them, that will keep them interested in the program and gain them the leadership skills we should be teaching them. Socialising Scouting, making all kids "winners" regardless of their ability, will only turn kids off the program. If you look at the successful youth programs, like cadets and Brigantine tall ships, all have strong positions of leadership for the kids, and the feedback I have heard from the kids (and the parents) is that is one of the reasons they like those programs.


Allan.

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Re: Shared Leadership

Post by firedog_53 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:34 am

The use of Youth Leaders, for many Scouters, comes down to "time and effort". I have heard too many Leaders explain away this by saying "by the time I tell one kid what to do, then he tells the Six what to do and then there is a fight.. I have to step in and fix it, might have well done that right at the start! So I bark at them all and things get done Right!"

Appoinint Sixers, Seconds, PL's or APL's means nothing, if you don't give them a chance to learn how to lead. If you don't support them in their positions. Get all that done, then you have to deal with Parents who are another great stumbling block. Many parents don't like or want some other youth telling their child what to do. What Leader has not heard "YOU ARE THE LEADER! Not so and so kid, or what's his name, .. many parents feel their child is not being represented in the group.

Shared Leadership, fits many of today's ideas. No one is above me, no one has the right to tell me what to do, I can do what ever I want ('cause my Mom says!) Unfortunately that idea fails when things are critical or there is any sense of urgency involved. I would suggest shared leadership in the small group planning stage but once it gets past that, then you need a Leader, not a committee.

just my thoughts,
FD

Sam Wallis
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Re: Shared Leadership

Post by Sam Wallis » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:39 am

I would love to figure out how to use the sixers more. I think shared leadership is a complicated thing for our young people to learn. if we cant teach one person to lead teaching a bunch to lead together is harder. that said, we generaly dont have an excess of third years, it might be different if we did. trending that way though.
Truth is a perception, and a individual perception is their truth

ayates
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Re: Shared Leadership

Post by ayates » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:59 am

firedog_53 wrote:What Leader has not heard "YOU ARE THE LEADER! Not so and so kid
Parents hold leaders responsible for the program, no matter what leadership. And from a legal standpoint they are definitely correct. Passing the blame to the kids will last just about as long as it takes a case to get to court.
firedog_53 wrote:Shared Leadership, fits many of today's ideas. No one is above me, no one has the right to tell me what to do, I can do what ever I want ('cause my Mom says!) Unfortunately that idea fails when things are critical or there is any sense of urgency involved.
"A SCOUT OBEYS ORDERS of his patrol-leader, or scout master without question. Even if he gets an order he does not like, he must do as soldiers and sailors do, he must carry it out all the same because it is his duty; and after he has done it he can come and state any reasons against it: but he must carry out the order at once. That is discipline."

Just watched the movie Crimson Tide last night, it covers this subject quite well. Another line I like, "If it's not somebody's job, it's nobody's job"

kaa27th
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Re: Shared Leadership

Post by kaa27th » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:23 am

In our group achieving the responsibility to become a sixer is something cubs strive for. Not all third year cubs are able. In fact, we have some 2nd year sixers with 3rd year seconds. I think mandating shared leadership would be a mistake. Present it as an option for groups where you have more capable youth than positions, yes, but leave it up to leadership to decide which model to use.
YIS
Akela (formerly Kaa),
Peterborough, ON

firedog_53
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Re: Shared Leadership

Post by firedog_53 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:28 am

ayates wrote:Parents hold leaders responsible for the program, no matter what leadership. And from a legal standpoint they are definitely correct. Passing the blame to the kids will last just about as long as it takes a case to get to court.
I agree, 100%! That does not mean and you must have had parents come to you with that idea in their head. Probably, as you say later, some folks don't want anyone giving them orders.

LOL, maybe the first step in a good Sixer/Second or PL/APL camp, would be "parenting skills" for parents! (kinda' like training dog owners and not the dogs!)... sorry, getting off topic! My bad..

FD

Sam Wallis
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Re: Shared Leadership

Post by Sam Wallis » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:50 am

No thanks. I have enough trouble teaching cubs to be cubs. teaching parents how to parent, well, thats beyond my skills.
Truth is a perception, and a individual perception is their truth

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RakelaK
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Re: Shared Leadership

Post by RakelaK » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:23 am

We don't use the terms "Sixers" and "Seconds" much.

We call our youth leaders in our Pack "YLTs" = "Youth Leadership Team members"

At the end of the day... sixer and second aren't titles... or entitlement gifts... they are earned roles with duties... and in each Six... all the true youth leaders should know all the duties at each role. A supposed Sixer can't make every meeting.... a balanced YLT means shared leadership between the true youth leaders who have earned that spot... and better communication between them... and from them back to the "ALT"

And it doesn't necessarily have to be a 3rd year on that team. We have four Sixes of six Cubs... and each Six, generally, has two reps on the YLT team... One Six has three .. and only one of those three in that Six is a senior Cub. The other two are second years. When we started our year with our ramp'd up FLEX camp it revealed to us that those two second years had great leadership qualities ( and 'ramp'd up FLEX'.....Sorry SC... FLEX goals/outcomes are fine..... BUT PLEASE!.... geto those dumb'd down Beaver level activities out of there and put some true Cub Scout level ramped up activities to help support the different module's aims!!)

So we run our monthly Sixer Council meetings separate from our regular meetings. And the Pack is represented at those meetings with all the youth from the YLT... we are able to simply sit and listen to them. The council meeting begins with "what did we do recently?", "what was good, what would YOU change?" (means the opinions of the Cubs themselves)... "what themes or interest Areas do you want to explore now?"... and "how do you want to do it?"

They will provide answers and ideas... if they are given the chance to.

The role of the ALT is to absorb all they plan.... and make sure the adults facilitate their plans into actual action.... sometimes doing tasks... sometimes making sure the youth do their own tasks required to make their plans work. The YLT council (better term for us than Sixer Council).... will prepare them for Court of Honour better.... have them prepared for a Venturer meeting better... IF we do it right. It's always a bit of a learning curve... and each year's YLTs make it a bit of an organic group to work with since they are always changing how they communicate.

In Scouts, with all activities being patrol planned... we try to get the Cubs into that mindset during YLT meetings. The Scout Councellors tend to lead the Scouts to plan their activities based around the "3 out, 1 community, 1 social" backbone (not always... but it's a great way to get them to be a true team).... so we try to get the Cub YLTs to think around the same lines. We do 7 or 8 camps per year... planning those keeps the Cub YLT pretty busy!. But they can still input their regular meetings too.

We do not do the 2 star per year thing... in the traditional way. We do work on them as idea foundation... but we ping pong around a bit on them so that its not just, as an example Fall Season = Red... Spring = Purple. Right now, Remembrance Day feeds Purple quite nicely for a week or two. But then.. those Cubs need to get OUT... and so some outdoor skills or athletic challenges come out of them. And, without really planning it, some Red Star stuff is being touched on. We link our seniors up with the Scouts from time to time... the YLTs have to be the one's to formally ask, or answer invitations for those. A few weeks ago the Seniors did a sewage treatment plant tour with the Scouts... next week the Seniors join the Scouts when they visit the Legion... a week after that the Seniors are doing a fire-lighting training module with the Scouts (beginner for some... advanced for others... based on their skill levels... it will be instructed in a way that suits them best.) They don't abandon their Cubs for those links.... they know it leaves the room empty... so they plan activities for those left behind in way that they can go ahead and invite the Beaver White-Tails to come to the Cub meetings and get some exposure to what Cubs is all about. All the sections work less by age grouping and more by skill levels, maturity levels... and on their own personal interests are. In the end... it blends them better... and makes for better retention.

Three cheers for those YLTs... they know what they like... and the more they plan... the better they get at it.

As for Sixer/Second.... we slipped and used that term a few weeks ago and were corrected by a "Sixer" himself who said.... "Hey!, X isn't my Second!... he is my equal partner!... we are a team"

Never underestimate the ideas and opinions of 9 and 10 year olds... they know what they like in Scouting... and they have the power to make it happen too.

Angus Bickerton
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Re: Shared Leadership

Post by Angus Bickerton » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:49 am

RakelaK wrote: When we started our year with our ramp'd up FLEX camp it revealed to us that those two second years had great leadership qualities ( and 'ramp'd up FLEX'.....Sorry SC... FLEX goals/outcomes are fine..... BUT PLEASE!.... geto those dumb'd down Beaver level activities out of there and put some true Cub Scout level ramped up activities to help support the different module's aims!!)
Okay, spill. Give us your feedback, man, as I have identified your cub program as one that I want to copy! What activities did you use as replacements? They worked well for us last year, but most of our cubs were 1st and 2nd year cubs, with little leadership experience. I'd like to make it better. Give us your camp plan, if you could.
Angus Bickerton
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Brockville Troop
1st Brockville Group Committee
1st Gilwell 2011 (Colony) 2013 (Pack)

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kaa27th
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Re: Shared Leadership

Post by kaa27th » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:55 am

Wow, Rakela, that sounds amazing, this is where we'd like to get with our program! I like the idea of YLT's vs sixer/second
YIS
Akela (formerly Kaa),
Peterborough, ON

Sam Wallis
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Re: Shared Leadership

Post by Sam Wallis » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:00 pm

Thats where we should be, but so far from where we are I cant see it.
Truth is a perception, and a individual perception is their truth

kaa27th
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Re: Shared Leadership

Post by kaa27th » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:54 am

Sam, I think it can be done. Have faith, take baby steps. We are about half way on our way to this, slowly but surely. But it has taken a couple of years! By the end of this year we may get there. We have a bunch of really good 2nd year kids that we can groom for next year.
YIS
Akela (formerly Kaa),
Peterborough, ON

Sam Wallis
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Re: Shared Leadership

Post by Sam Wallis » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:35 am

I am pushing for it, starting too far back IMO, but pushing. we wont be there this year or next. If only I had the time to be Akela, that would shake things up. where is that winning lotto ticket anyway.
Truth is a perception, and a individual perception is their truth

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