Program Review - Universal Suggestions

Discussions about the 2012 Program Review
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Program Review - Universal Suggestions

Post by sdfry » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:38 am

I'm not sure if any of these have been thought of.


It would be nice to have a "Passport" type book that can follow the youth through their "Adventure Skills" journey. Not a book (like the current Cub book) that has an explanation of every requirement (that should be a different document). Just a small book that has one or two pages per stage. With room for one line and a check box (and/or) date for each skill. And for skills that require a certain number of activities to be done (ie: camps/canoe trips/dives) a log at the back of the book to capture that info.

Start the book off with a little colour and graphics more appropriate for a Beaver and adjust the "look and feel" as the youth "grow" through the book.

Stamps (stickers?) can then be created to stamp each stage that a youth finishes.

Yes, 10 different books would have to be made.

But if you are going to create a multi section badge program there needs to be an easy way to track it. The younger youth will enjoy having something concrete and they will have something to show the next Scouting group what they've accomplished and where they are at in a Skill if they move. (ie: military families).

Larger books: My local Scout Shop has a lot of shelves filled with unsold books and material.

The actual reference material (Not things like the Field Guide, but larger explanations of each Stage and Skill) I would just download them and print them, but that's easy for me to do. I know others (youth and adults) want something more tangible so I do believe some should be printed, but does every shop have to stock them? Printed to order? Print them and let Amazon deliver them? No idea. Just "throwing it out there".


Filling nine stages are brutal. Judging from the traffic on the SCUBA doc and the list on the Camping skills there's a push to have each stage have multiple requirements. I don't see a problem with a stage just being a "doing" portion of the Skills. For example, why not have two stages in the Camping Skill badge (ie: Stage 4 and 7) just be "Complete X number of X style camps since the previous stage was complete". If the whole purpose of the "Adventure Skills" is to get them out there, then make stages that "gets them out there". I think this would work for every Skill.


If you are going to make a stage about certification. Don't ignore the fact that the certification included a lot of education already. So see what the skills are taught in the courses and don't repeat it.

If the requirement is "Open Water Cert", or "Advanced Open Water" don't add more education, add more activities. Or have the youth give a talk about their experiences. And the next stage could be simply "Complete x number of dives since the previous skill was complete".

First Aider Skill set could be volunteering at a Scouting event (but I don't know the legal requirements for that, if any).

Just random thoughts,

(I can post here, but not in the "Program Review" topic Someone can move it if they wish.)

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Re: Program Review - Universal Suggestions

Post by polarburr » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:06 pm

Suggestion that leaders earn the Adventure Skills along side the youth. Not sure if this has changed since this was originally posted.

It's like your team at work or friends. Everybody has different skill sets, strengths/weaknesses and you utilize that knowledge to have the right people with the right equipment at the right time. How better to know your fellow Scouters than to see their adventure skills on their sleeves? Parents and youth will see them too, so they know there are skills learned/earned through experience and not just gold bars (service) or pins (training).
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Re: Program Review - Universal Suggestions

Post by Sam Wallis » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:15 am

moving off adventure skills how will the program review support the use/creation of sixer second council, COH, patrol method, and in general youth leadership? having a few youth leaders in the NYN, or at the area/council level is great, but it doesnt reach the masses. I know our pack struggles to use sixers/seconds effectivly, partly at least because some of us lack skills in letting them lead. its easy to tell the kids we are going for a hike, its hard to get them to sugest or start to plan anything, without us knowing how to facilitate that.
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Re: Program Review - Universal Suggestions

Post by Hawkeye3 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:20 pm

Sam Wallis wrote:moving off adventure skills how will the program review support the use/creation of sixer second council, COH, patrol method, ... it's hard to get them to sugest or start to plan anything, without us knowing how to facilitate that.
I agree that youth leadership is a missing piece. Last night, in the winter skills, I proposed that the youth do exactly that. In level four (senior Cubs), they should be doing some event planning. Perhaps that is what we are missing. Not only should youth plan some of the activities earlier, but the ones who get their certification should be asked to "give back" and lead sessions for the younger Scouts (both in their section and lower sections).

I would leave this open for broad interpretation. Cubs can organize everything from a hike to a wide game to an entire weekend.

Peter, I like the idea of us leaders earning the Adventure Skills Awards. What better way is there to show our expertise than by "wearing it on our sleeves"? Let it serve as a constant reminder of what we can do and how we can help lead.

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Re: Program Review - Universal Suggestions

Post by Sam Wallis » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:13 pm

I agree, put it in the adventure skills, but even in normal meetings, what gets the kids choosing a path? right now I could decide that our pack does cross country skiing, and push that. if none of them like it and they all drop out, not my problem, right?

what should happen is the cubs work together decide that they want to work on snowshoing, and then we do that. then they stay, and learn how to do things. now thats simple, and to the extreme, but I know that getting youth to lead is hard for some leaders, some help with that would be nice
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Re: Program Review - Universal Suggestions

Post by akela10th » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:57 pm

Not sure if this has been answered elsewhere, so here goes: how does the program review affect the Chief Scout's Award and Queen's Venturer Award requirements?

Also, how does the program review tie in with the World Scout Environment Award?

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Re: Program Review - Universal Suggestions

Post by Rick Gruchy » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:31 pm

The Canadian Path will be changing the requirements of both the Chief Scout's Award and the Queen's Venturer Award. The new requirements will be simple to understand (the two page flow chart will be gone), but it will remain very challenging. If a youth is working on their CSA/QVA using the current requirement, they will be allowed to complete their award.

The WSEA as a stand alone award will not be a part of the new program. However, each section will have an environment type badge in the Personal Achievement awards. Also, environment is one of the Program Elements that we will be using throughout our program cycles as a part of a balanced program,

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Re: Program Review - Universal Suggestions

Post by Noel Mang Chenier » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:03 pm

Sorry, I can't seem to create a post in this forum, this is more a question than a suggestion...

So is the focus now purely on outdoor activities/achievement?
Are there still going to be badges that focus on creativity, community involvement, etc?
I see all the new personal achievement listed here: ... ement.html

but the only mention of non-adventure type are here:

Are they just not being highlighted as they are staying the same?

I hope so, because the reality is, not every kid who gets into scouts is totally into outdoors and enjoys the variety of activities we currently provide (games, arts, crafts, learning)

Trust me, I'm all for getting kids outdoors and more active...but the reality is we could stand to lose quite a few members if we cut out non-outdoor activities.

All in all, I like the redesign and how things all tie together.

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Re: Program Review - Universal Suggestions

Post by 5th Weyburn Lise » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:53 pm

I completely agree. I have 27 in our Cub group and our 5th Weyburn group itself sits at a little over 60 youth. If we are overly focused on the outdoors, I will guarantee that I will lose some amazing youth. We want our youth to be well rounded, encouraged to go beyond their comfort zones to seek out new adventures and opportunities, and growing together by capitalizing on the strengths within themselves and their peers. This means that there has to be just as much available for the kid who loves numbers as the kid who lives in trees. Lord Powell himself was a great mix of these. He loved the outdoors, reading and understanding others, strategy planning, exploring, environmental conservation, reading, writing, song and dance, finding ways to unify for a common good....our program needs to always be that inclusive to appeal to anyone and benefit everyone.

I am also very (repeat VERY) concerned with the lack of the spiritual components within the new suggested Canadian Paths (I will continue to look for more on this, but my first glances don't show much). If we are losing focus on the fact that there is a reason that we are all here, that there is a "something bigger" calling us to do our best and better ourselves and those around us by our efforts, then we will be ruining a core principle of Scouting. While we need to remain open to all youth of all beliefs, we need to ensure that the central belief system of something outside of ourselves is a key piece in this new revitalization.

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Re: Program Review - Universal Suggestions

Post by norma » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:22 pm

From what I see there is more emphasis on the "Adventure", this can be done with outdoor elements (mostly with the Adventure Skill badges, though some of the topics are still indoorish)
But the program seems to still include more indoor elements: creativity and personal expression is still a part of the program (Rascal's River for Beavers, Monkey City for Cubs, Cabot Trail for Scouts), citizenship is still a big part (Big Brown Beaver's Lodge for Beavers, Elephant Turf for Cubs, Ottawa River for Scouts) so the elements are still there.
The main elements of leadership, citizenship, personal development and outdoor skills are all there ... just a little different spread around. The emphasis can be pretty much the same as it is currently (some indoor and some outdoor)
And there will still be the individual badges as there currently are, they just didn't enumerate all the different individual badges that will be available. Mostly highlighted the "new" parts of the program rather than the parts that will be pretty much the same.

The Spirituality part (I believe) is still being incorporated. It is part of the SPICES and included in the maps (under Beliefs and Values: Rainbow's Reflections for Beavers, Baloo's Cave for Cubs, West Coast Trail for Scouts, plus Hawkeye's Campfire for Beavers (Ceremonies and Reflection) would encompass the spirituality portion of the programs)

Think the aim is to move towards providing "adventures" rather than providing "badges". The "adventure" for the youth could be climbing a mountain or simply putting on a play for their parents. Simply something that will push their limits and let them try new things and learn new skills and have new experiences. It is a change of the focus from "gaining badges" to "gaining knowledge, skills, and experiences" which happen to allow you to wear a badge to show you have that knowledge, skill or experience.

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Re: Program Review - Universal Suggestions

Post by Angus Bickerton » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:31 pm


I know your post is a bit older, but it is bang on. As a member of the Cub Team, adventure refers to adventures in all areas, whether you are camping, going to a museum, or visiting the Court House. Yes, we are really pushing to get the OUT in SCOUTING, but Scouting is to be a well-rounded activity, not a one-track activity. Scouting, in essence, is a way of life, not a past-time.

The personal interest badges are not listed, as the program has only been released in broad strokes before refining it, however, I can say that our team looked at the cub badges, hacked them to pieces, and then put them back together. All of the outdoor skills badges are gone now, as they will be covered in the Outdoor Skills levels 1-9. Each badge is in a different part of the map (so Law Awareness would be in Hathi's Turf, Artist in Monkey City, etc.), but they are much less requirement-driven, instead encouraging the youth to present an idea to their leader, refine that idea in discussion with the leader, go off and do the work, and then come back and discuss the results with the leader and/or the Pack or Lair.

This is, in essence, the Plan, Do and Review model. It means that the youth don't have a text book to follow, but an adventure of their own to create for each and every badge that they wish to earn.

As for spirituality, the idea that it is not present is preposterous. It is one of the core planning elements in SPICES (just as it was in GAMSOCS), and it is present in the personal development area consistently. Spirituality is an Area that leaders have traditionally been afraid to tackle, for fear of causing offence. However, it really isn't something to think of that way. Rather, it is an opportunity to get kids to ask questions about life, the universe and everything. I try and incorporate a spiritual element into every adventure we do. My most recent spiritual experience was in Algonquin Park with a group of youth, and I asked them all to notice a few things: no car engines, cell phones, etc. There were no man-made noises unless there was a plane passing overhead or someone was taking a picture. The rest was all wind, water, waves, insects, birds and animals. A group of us watched a beaver swim right around the point on which our last night's camp was situated, a mere 10 fee away from us, and it didn't spook. It was 6 a.m., the sun was just coming over the horizon, and we stood there in perfect silence, in awe of creation. If that's not a spiritual experience, then I don't know what is.
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Re: Program Review - Universal Suggestions

Post by Sam Wallis » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:51 pm

I think the risk here is to confuse spirituality and religion. religion can be spiritual, but, where some see religions as the only path to spirituality they are but one path. recognizing that is the key to opening a more inclusive spirituality.
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