Uniform Hats

Raves, rants, and comments about the 2011 uniform change
David Spurr
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Uniform Hats

Post by David Spurr » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:42 pm

The one thing I did not like about the old uniform is that there was
no official hat. The reasons for this opinion are
1. The protocol in commonwealth countries is that one does salute
uncovered. I find if difficult to have a proper flag break without an
official hat. One of the things we are trying to teach the youth is duty
to others. Respect for the flag and what it stands for is part of this
concept.
2. On the prairies we experience temperatures ranging from -30 to
+ 30 C in a normal year. It is ludicrous to go around without something
on your head when outdoors.
I would encourage use of a hat as part of the uniform.

David Spurr
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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by David Spurr » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:14 am

My mistake - it should read “does NOT salute uncovered”

kaa27th
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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by kaa27th » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:07 pm

I agree. A wide brimmed hat (possibly with a draw string to fit many sizes) would have been nice!
YIS
Akela (formerly Kaa),
Peterborough, ON

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LoyalistMang
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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by LoyalistMang » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:10 pm

Also agreed. I don't know how many youth would wear it, but at least I could buy mine from Scouts Canada instead of the BSA.
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jkeess
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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by jkeess » Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:20 pm

I challenge you to wear one of those hats while doing anything challenging outdoors such as a multi-day hike or long canoeing trip....

A tilley wouldn't be a bad idea, especially as the inventor was a scout himself.

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Jody
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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by Jody » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:35 pm

Our group's burgundy berets are stylish and suitable for outdoor activities.

They are pure wool and keep your head very warm in the winter and dry in the rain.

Best of all, they immediately identify your group as Scouts when no other identifying uniform is visible or worn (great conversation starter while out snowshoeing or hiking).

Here's a photo of them in action:

Image
Last edited by Jody on Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
B. Jody Lotzkar
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1st Mountaineer Scouts, West Vancouver, B.C.

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Angus Bickerton
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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by Angus Bickerton » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:32 am

The berets look sharp. If we want to look more like cadets, then we should go back to the beret, but I think that Scouts Canada needs to distinguish itself from Cadets. Cadets are very different from Scouts, and do a very different program (which is a good thing. The two programs should be distinct). Also, while berets are warm, they are no good for keeping the sun off your neck and ears, and sunscreen just doesn't cut it when you are hiking in 30C weather. It all sweats off. Also, there is no shade for your eyes with a beret.

The best sunscreen is to keep the sun off your skin in the first place. This is part of being prepared, not just for scouting, but to protect yourself from skin cancer when you are in your 40's, 50's, 60's and so on. I'm 44, and the damage to me has already been done, even though I wear a wide-brimmed hat now. The kids under my care can be protected from the sun damage that I unknowingly endured when I was their age. Were Scouts Canada to return to berets, knowing what we now know about sun damage, we would be negligent. Worse, we would be willfully blind to the effects of sun on human skin.

A proper hat with a decent full-diameter brim is the only way to go. That is why the original scout uniform used the Stetson, and why the OPP returned to use of the Stetson in the 1990s. I am not proposing a return to the Stetson for Scouting, but a Tilley-type hat that is durable and washable, such as was used by Canadian Troops during Desert Storm, would be a really good idea, but one that is better looking than the crumply version that we had available at the Scout Shop until recently.
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kaa27th
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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by kaa27th » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:17 pm

I agree. The baseball caps available for cubs and scouts just aren't cutting it for me or my kids.
YIS
Akela (formerly Kaa),
Peterborough, ON

Angus Bickerton
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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by Angus Bickerton » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:20 pm

kaa27th wrote:I agree. The baseball caps available for cubs and scouts just aren't cutting it for me or my kids.
They mark the low point of the Joe Fresh designs. Ball caps are "stylish" but not functional for what we do. While I love the shirts, the caps need to be tossed. I do like the bucket hat for the Beavers, as it is wearable all the time, instead of just at meetings.
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makr
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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by makr » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:33 am

When I was in elementry school, I was always jealous of the kids that got to wear their local little league baseballcap to school. Scouting at that time had nothing in that department that was subtle enough that was scouting related but also not shouting in your face that it was scouting. This is sort of what they're going for with the ballcaps. Hats that can be worn without any other part of the uniform.

Truth be told, if you're that worried about headgear for scouts during the winter, you can get this toque for 8(EIGHT) dollars and sew a group or general badge or whatever and you're set. I've had one of these since my first year of venturers and have since bought two more because they're warm, comfortable and a hood easily goes over them.

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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by Angus Bickerton » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:44 am

makr wrote:When I was in elementry school, I was always jealous of the kids that got to wear their local little league baseballcap to school. Scouting at that time had nothing in that department that was subtle enough that was scouting related but also not shouting in your face that it was scouting. This is sort of what they're going for with the ballcaps. Hats that can be worn without any other part of the uniform.
That is a good point. I realize that part of the raison d'etre for the uniform change was branding/advertising/PR, and a ball cap is a favoured form of advertising for all sorts of companies. Why not Scouts Canada? I mean, all sorts of people don't hesitate to wear a Nike, Adidas or a Tiger Woods logo on a ball cap. Why not a Scouts Canada logo?

I stand humbly corrected. Thanks for the toque tip.
Angus Bickerton
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Brockville Troop
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ayates
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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by ayates » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:56 am

Angus Bickerton wrote: I mean, all sorts of people don't hesitate to wear a Nike, Adidas or a Tiger Woods logo on a ball cap. Why not a Scouts Canada logo?
Because they would be teased and bullied by their peers if they did. My understanding is that girls can get away with it but not boys. In the words of one of my (aged out) female Venturers, the boys would be considered "Super Nerds" if they wore any Scouts Canada branded items in public.

I'm not saying I like it or agree with it, but that is a current fact of life. No amount of changing the uniform alter this perception. Is the latest uniform better/nicer/etc? Possibly, but everybody has their own opinion. Will the latest uniform make kids want to wear it more, especially in public, or be more likely to join Scouting? Not at all.


Allan.

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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by BalooTwo » Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:54 pm

I think the correct term is not Super Nerd, but Uber Nerd - too old to understand todays language. Anyway, the 'Nerdness does extend to Guide, Cadets, etc. uniforms it seems. Anything that looks like a uniform is 'out' - irrespective of what Joe Fresh says, who later I learnt is also 'out'.

I do like the look of the berets with the uniforms - they look like something organized. I was at an event with multiple Cub groups and a few scouts tossed in. Other than the neckers, it looked like a disorganized rabble. Old uniforms, new uniforms - partly worn for both, and retro uniforms. Some sashes, no sashes, hats and none. Most badges improperly placed. I stood there in my wrinkled old tan and wondered if this was at all clearly thought out. I know things take time, but an organization built on the premise of "Be Prepared", I think 'we just weren't'.

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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by jkeess » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:14 am

Ball caps are wonderful. Haveing a job where you have to wear a wider brimmed hat, I envy ball caps. Mind you, the Joe Fresh ones look pretty silly, but a ball cap's great at keeping the sun off of your face and packs well. They're affordable and you don't get a stupid cloth brim all over the place.

Yes, trying to make uniforms not just fashionable but trendy was from the start a terrible idea.

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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by Angus Bickerton » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:55 am

The trouble with ball caps, despite their popularity, is sunburned ears and necks, and this cannot be poo-pood by people saying to use sunscreen. You sweat the sunscreen off very quickly, despite their claims about being waterproof. Sun damage is a very real problem that we KNOW leads to skin carcinoma and melanoma later in life.

The Beaver Scout bucket hat is the only one hat we have that provides any protection of a kid's ears and neck.

As for BalooTwo, your comments about the mix mash of uniforms is bang on, but any uniform change would be met with that, as it won't all happen at once. This will require the section leaders to make a decision to adopt the new uniform to fix, which may require Groups to do so.

It is the refusal of section leaders to actually teach their kids/parents where to put the flipping badges. It is not hard to put them in the right place, and you can download a single page that shows badge location for parents. We went so far in Beavers as to print the page and clip the badge to it with arrows indicating where they go.
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norma
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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by norma » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:46 pm

I liked the 'bush hat' that was started with BOTA. I wear it all summer long, at Scouting events and just generally running around.

I personally cannot wear a baseball hat anymore. They don't 'fit' my head and I require the protection of my neck and my face. The brim of the baseball hat will protect my forehead if I am lucky. Otherwise, I get burnt to a crisp in no time.

Having the current 'mishmash' of the uniforms new and old would be ok, IF the youth and adults would wear their uniforms with pride. Which includes getting their badges in the correct places (I have had parents show up with safety pins in order to get them in the correct place before they leave)
Another group actually pined the badges on ALL their Beavers at the Investiture ceremony so that IF they were not given the opportunity to have them sewn on (doing it themselves or their parent doing it) at least the badges were on the uniforms.
I am thinking of doing this next year as out of 7 new youth, only 1 has the badges sewn onto their vest. And as we did not have the Area badge (the Scout Houses in the area are all out, checked 3 different stores) there were only two badges to be sewn on.

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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by jkeess » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:07 am

Baseball caps are also adjustable, and a collar on your shirt can usually keep the sun off. If it's that vital, a buff will do just fine.

They also don't look frumpy, which is a big win when it comes to uniforms.

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Jody
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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by Jody » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:58 pm

Come end of winter, my guys will be all be sporting this headgear: :o

Image

Their future's so bright, they're gonna have to wear shades (more specifically, glacier glasses). ;)
B. Jody Lotzkar
Founder
1st Mountaineer Scouts, West Vancouver, B.C.

Email.......... scouterjody [at] gmail [dot] com
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Oh, and if anyone asks: Yes....this IS supposed to scare your mother!

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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by apitman » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:01 pm

I love the Rover Beret even if Scouts did not go back to the Beret . I would love it if Rovers would go back to the official Beret. It looks so sharp and Rovers need to be easily picked out in a camp we are proud and we are few.

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Re: Uniform Hats

Post by jkeess » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:22 pm

Berets are not practical and very easily look silly - much like wannabe commandos.

Scouts are civilians, and the proper civilian protocol is to do ceremonies like the raising of the flag and nation anthem is to uncover one's head. After which, a ball cap, or any practical hat of your choosing, does just fine.

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