Uniform news?

Raves, rants, and comments about the 2011 uniform change
ayates
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Uniform news?

Post by ayates » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:24 pm

Anybody have an update on the new uniform? Other than it will be announced in BP week. I keep hearing rumours that all the feedback provided by people is being ignored and that even the much touted George Brown College work is being dismissed. I was hoping somebody might have some more positive information on the process. That begs the questions, if the idea was involvement from the members as a whole, why would a number of suggestions/options not be put out for comment? Rather than a fait accompli being planned?


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Errol Feldman
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Re: Uniform news?

Post by Errol Feldman » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:13 am

Check out Scouts Canada Official Face Book webpage discussion:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7 ... opic=15450
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Robert D White
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Re: Uniform news?

Post by Robert D White » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:22 pm

I was at an Area meeting recently where we'd heard the Board of Governors had been given a look at its last meeting. Word was: they were impressed and the new uniform will look "smart." Not much more was said.
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Liam Morland
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Re: Uniform news?

Post by Liam Morland » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:51 pm

OK, so why is what the board saw not public? If a new uniform is to be designed, the first thing that is made public must be just an early prototype, a starting point for discussion. Anything else is undemocratic.
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Re: Uniform news?

Post by Hawkeye3 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:16 pm

Liam Morland wrote:...Anything else is undemocratic.
So Liam, is it your contention that all members should get a vote on the new uniform? How would that vote look? Do we let the Beavers vote on their uniform? OR is it just leaders? Or members over a certain age?

As silly as I think it is to hide the new uniforms, from a marketing perspective, I understand why. SC wants a big splash and frankly a big splash every now and then can be a good thing. If not here, then where?

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Re: Uniform news?

Post by ayates » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:36 pm

The problem with the process I think, is not that everybody needs to get a vote, but that everybody needs to feel included in the process. Since uniforms are a contentious issue to begin with, and many leaders feel that national doesn't listen to them at anytime, making a new uniform selection as inclusive as possible would seem to be desirable. They went and collected input. That was good. It may or may not be being used, we don't really know. Now we hear the final decision was made a month ago (lead time for the magazine). What should have happened was an iterative process where after the first input collection was made, national came back with some draft versions, and requested a second round of input. Probably that would have been enough, unless it was pretty obvious nobody like any of the options.

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Re: Uniform news?

Post by Hawkeye3 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:49 pm

ayates wrote:... but that everybody needs to feel included in the process. Since uniforms are a contentious issue to begin with, and many leaders feel that national doesn't listen to them at anytime, ...
Based on what you wrote, on this issue, I think National took a smart approach. SC horses are pulling in 6400 different directions. There is no way that National could achieve consensus. On some issues, I would agree that consensus would be the right approach. In this environment with this issue, it would be suicide.

But, the question remains, if SC was to put the uniform to a vote, who would get a vote?

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Re: Uniform news?

Post by scoutleader101 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:24 am

I have no concerns with every member having a vote (why shouldn't Beaver Scouts vote for their uniform?). According to BP&P the choice of whether or not to wear a uniform is ALWAYS to be made by the youth and their parent so why not let them vote? They're going to anyway! Your comment: "In this environment with this issue, it would be suicide." seems to say that because consensus is not possible (which I agree with) then there should be no consultations at all. I find that to be ludicrous.

However, putting that issue aside:

Why is the choosing of uniforms being done by only two people?
On an issue that has been contentious, why is there not a process for trying to build some consensus (as hard as that may be)?
Why are there no prototypes being shown with some comments such as, 'here's what we're thinking of and here's why?'
Why is the study assigned to the college being basically pushed aside and the uniforms being rushed out before the study is even done?
Why has all the previous feedback and poll results been ignored and called 'tainted'?

Garth

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Re: Uniform news?

Post by Hawkeye3 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:56 pm

Please note, I never said no consultations. It seems they have been consulting as prototypes have been shown to some groups (no, I have not seen them). On this issue, no, I do not believe they should try to achieve consensus nor do I believe that everyone should be given a vote. I’ve seen nothing about studies being pushed aside and poll results being tainted.

Here is how I see it. SC has two huge problems right now. It is a dying organization. Culturally, people are far less likely to be joiners as compared to 50 years ago. Read “Bowling Alone” by Robert Putnam to see the uphill battle that SC has. Second, look at the group on this site. I have never seen so many people upset at SC! If this was all I knew about SC, I’d say we’re facing a revolt. SC has a big communications problem internally. Information does not get to the right people in a timely manner.

We have a dying organization where the super-keen online insiders are revolting (could that be why they consider the poll results tainted?) with a communications problem. It’s in that environment where many are yelling “Hurry up!!!” while others (and sometimes the same people) are yelling “Consult”. Those two message conflict.

If I was SC and needed a big media splash to try to save the ship, I’d do what they are doing too about the uniforms. It may not be right, but IMHO, it’s their only option.

So, this spawns the topic (and if someone wants to start it, go for it), “If I was CEO, here are the 10 SMART measures I would take in the first year”.

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Re: Uniform news?

Post by ayates » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:53 pm

Here is an example of what I would call a good consultatative process. From a UK Scout forum:
Thank you for responding as part of the first round of swimming consultation. We have taken on board the feedback received and would like your comments on Round 2 of the proposals. Details can be found at: http://www.scouts.org.uk/documents/a...sultation2.pdf

Please note the deadline for responses (via the online survey) is Monday the 14th Feb.

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Errol Feldman
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Re: Uniform news?

Post by Errol Feldman » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:08 am

Hawkeye3 wrote:So, this spawns the topic (and if someone wants to start it, go for it), “If I was CEO, here are the 10 SMART measures I would take in the first year”.

SO why don't you start it then Hawkeye; see how much response you get :)
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Re: Uniform news?

Post by Hawkeye3 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:59 am

Errol Feldman wrote: SO why don't you start it then Hawkeye; see how much response you get :)
It's not the quantity that has me afraid. At this time, I don't see it going anywhere positive. Another time, perhaps. :(

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Errol Feldman
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Re: Uniform news?

Post by Errol Feldman » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:22 am

Hawkeye3 wrote:
Errol Feldman wrote: SO why don't you start it then Hawkeye; see how much response you get :)
It's not the quantity that has me afraid. At this time, I don't see it going anywhere positive. Another time, perhaps. :(
Brother Alan Yates started it...let's try and keep it as he suggests; POSITIVE and not "slamming" the EC/CEO.




@edit: Typo
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ertwdan
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Re: Uniform news?

Post by ertwdan » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:25 am

Has anyone heard if there is an "official" release date. I'm kinda curious to see what they look like.

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Re: Uniform news?

Post by scouterjohn » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:52 pm

In a recent search for models the date March 25 was cited as the unveiling.

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Re: Uniform news?

Post by awallwork » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:48 pm

It will be streamed online and more.

There's been some talk of a sneak peak going for talkscouter's - stay tuned. We'll see what we can do.
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Scouter Richie
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Re: Uniform news?

Post by Scouter Richie » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:08 am

It's out!!

http://www.parentcentral.ca/parent/news ... get-snazzy <- Formal Uniform

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/mobile/sto ... id=4500196 <- Activity uniform

The beavers look the best in my opinion. I would like to see what they look like with actual badges on.

I can't wait to see it in person.

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Kaylee Galipeau
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Re: Uniform news?

Post by Kaylee Galipeau » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:24 am

watch here at about 6pm EST for the full line and all the info. I'm sure there's millions of questions, but lots will probably be answered here:



http://www.scouts.ca/uniformlaunch/
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Re: Uniform news?

Post by Nick Pearson » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:52 am

Cubs
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Re: Uniform news?

Post by awallwork » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:57 am

http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdispla ... vStw%3d%3d

Page 3 of the National Post! Who cares about the election, this is far bigger news!
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