Rover Beret

Virtual Moot for our senior scouting section.

Moderators: Errol Feldman, Mike Stewart

Scouter Andrew
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:55 pm
anti_spambot: 7

Rover Beret

Post by Scouter Andrew » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:06 pm

I have been in scouting for 16 years now, and as a Rover I have been wearing the Rover Beret, now it is not part of the official Scouts Canada Uniform, but myself and many other Rovers across CEC have been wearing it, and feel proud to wear it and bring back part of the history of Scouting in Canada. I started a discussion about this on Scouts Canada's Official Facebook Group, and have received many great reviews. Since then I have received a few emails from different DCC's and all of them seem to like that I am keeping with something I like but don't want to do anything about it. Reasons being that the last time a survey was taken youth didn't want it anymore and so they got ird of it. Well alot can change form then and if we want to wear the beret whats the big deal? Our Chief Commissioner Steve Kent sais in his new video posted on Youtube. "time t get back to basics" well then why can't we get back to giving the youth what they want? if Rovers want the option of the Rover Beret being a part of their uniform whats the big deal? We are in scouting because we love it and Rovers stay in it to help contribute and eventually become leaders.

I have also enclosed the link to the Facebook Discussion if anyone is interested in looking into this.

Yours In Scouting,
Andrew Wyszynski
North Waterloo Area DAC Youth Rep

Scouter Andrew
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:55 pm
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Rover Beret

Post by Scouter Andrew » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:11 pm


Steve in Thunder Bay
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:39 pm

Re: Rover Beret

Post by Steve in Thunder Bay » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:16 pm

Hi Andrew;

I've got a question for you first...which Rover beret are you wearing? The most recent blue one, the red polyester one with the white patch, or the red wool one with the green patch? Reason I ask is because it's hard to nail down just what "traditional" or "original" means in regards to the Scout uniform...keep in mind that Rovers originally wore the Stetson!

There are a lot of reasons Scouts Canada is unlikely to bring back the beret as official headgear; informal surveys and petitions aside, one of the biggies is cost...there aren't enough Rovers in Canada to make producing a special hat (of any kind) economical.

One thing that I constantly have to clarify for my Scouts (and a lot of leaders too!) is that Scouts Canada's official headgear is "none". None means none...it dosen't mean 'wear whatever you like'. So it's important, particularly at parades, Remembrance Day, ceremonies, etc., that the uniform be worn, well, uniformly.

That being said, kudos to you for choosing to wear something that looks like it should be worn with the uniform. There's nothing worse in my mind to have a Troop put some extra effort into their appearance for things like Remembrance Day, and then have everybody show up with something completely juxtaposed on their heads...anything from Jeff Gordon ball caps to Tilley hats, to Jester touques. Makes us look ridiculous. However, if you're the only one in a sea of ball caps wearing the beret, you're likely to look as out of place as anyone else.

Rather than a mix of 'whatever you want', I'd rather see a Troop in matching ball caps (maybe in Troop colours), or something along those lines, if they were going to be standing outside for a long period of time and covering the head is warranted. If you can scrounge enough old berets to completely outfit your Crew, even better. I know of several Troops that have a pile of berets (even Stetsons in a couple cases) that the Troop owns and loans out to the Scouts for parades etc.

Scouter Andrew
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:55 pm
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Rover Beret

Post by Scouter Andrew » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:39 am

Hi,

The Rover beret my crew is wearing is the the one with the black Scouts Canada logo that was used on the blue berets we had a while back. I also wear my stetson that even has the rover hat plume :) Whats great about the beret is when I wear mine later on the same year I will see those same people that were asking me questions now wearing the beret themselves and with their whole crew.

apitman
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:13 am
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Rover Beret

Post by apitman » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:15 pm

I am a Medical Rover and Wear my Beret at all chances I can I love it and think Rovers should bring it back.

southpaw_1979
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:05 am
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Rover Beret

Post by southpaw_1979 » Mon May 28, 2012 2:53 pm

I'd support the return of the beret. I was disappointed when it was removed from the uniform. I have a green and blue beret from during my scouting career and I have a red beret that i never had the chance to wear with the uniform but really wish I had, they removed it long before I was rover so our crew never wore them.

Angus Bickerton
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:55 pm
anti_spambot: 7
Location: Brockville, Ontario

Re: Rover Beret

Post by Angus Bickerton » Tue May 29, 2012 8:54 am

I am given to understand that the beret was originally abandoned because the look was "too military", and there was a lack of functionality to the beret. The Stetson was originally abandoned because it was too expensive, but its function was to keep the sun off one's ears, neck, and face. While SC has no headgear as part of the uniform, it recommends a full-brimmed hat for outdoor activities.

Unlikely that we will see the return of the beret, though I do know of some "rebels" who sport them on occasion. ;)
Angus Bickerton
Troop Scouter
Brockville Troop
1st Brockville Group Committee
1st Gilwell 2011 (Colony) 2013 (Pack)

There is no armour made that can withstand the truth - Karsa Orlong

Rick Gruchy
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:45 am
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Rover Beret

Post by Rick Gruchy » Tue May 29, 2012 9:07 am

I can't believe people want to bring the Beret Back! As a youth in the movement, back in the 70s and 80s, we hated them. We didn't mind the Green shirts, but we refused to wear the Berets for the simple reason that we thought they were dorky. We also found them impractical and useless at camp. At the time we would have preferred the Stetsons, but they were not longer available. When the wide brimmed Tilly hats hit the market we started getting those (or cheap knock offs) for camp.

Now the Touque, that should be official Scouts Canada head gear. :D

Rick

Angus Bickerton
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:55 pm
anti_spambot: 7
Location: Brockville, Ontario

Re: Rover Beret

Post by Angus Bickerton » Wed May 30, 2012 9:24 am

Rick Gruchy wrote:I can't believe people want to bring the Beret Back! As a youth in the movement, back in the 70s and 80s, we hated them. We didn't mind the Green shirts, but we refused to wear the Berets for the simple reason that we thought they were dorky. We also found them impractical and useless at camp. At the time we would have preferred the Stetsons, but they were not longer available. When the wide brimmed Tilly hats hit the market we started getting those (or cheap knock offs) for camp.

Now the Touque, that should be official Scouts Canada head gear. :D

Rick
The worst was that awful polyester beret that would not fold down over your right ear. The darn things just wouldn't take a shape. Instead, the whole thing stood up like a tam, making it the headgear for Dorky McDorkenstein! They were utterly horrible, and we would have preferred the Stetsons. Perhaps we should have tried to use heat on them, but I remember more than one beret burning very quickly in a campfire from time to time. :oops:

Fortunately, my mom spent the extra money and bought me the wool beret, which looked better than anyone else's in the entire troop, but they were considerably more expensive.
Angus Bickerton
Troop Scouter
Brockville Troop
1st Brockville Group Committee
1st Gilwell 2011 (Colony) 2013 (Pack)

There is no armour made that can withstand the truth - Karsa Orlong

Rick Gruchy
Posts: 220
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:45 am
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Rover Beret

Post by Rick Gruchy » Wed May 30, 2012 3:28 pm

Angus Bickerton wrote:
The worst was that awful polyester beret that would not fold down over your right ear. The darn things just wouldn't take a shape. Instead, the whole thing stood up like a tam, making it the headgear for Dorky McDorkenstein! They were utterly horrible, and we would have preferred the Stetsons. Perhaps we should have tried to use heat on them, but I remember more than one beret burning very quickly in a campfire from time to time. :oops:
Yes, I remember the polyester berets and yes they were bad. Like you, I witnessed one go up in flames . . . "Really, it was an accident Mom." :cry: I entered our Troop in '77 and our Scouters had already given up on the Beret by that time, we just would not wear them and I suspect our Scouters were unconcerned about what was on our heads.

No. I would never support the return of the Beret and if for some crazy reason they did get brought back (not likely thankfully), I would never require a youth in a section I was involved with to wear them.

Rick

ayates
Posts: 642
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 6:48 am
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Rover Beret

Post by ayates » Wed May 30, 2012 10:40 pm

Yet I believe the beret is worn by a number of elite miltary troops, and it is considered an honour to wear it. The beret isn't a problem in itself, like the rest of the uniform it is what people think it represents, not what it actually is.

Sam Wallis
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:46 pm
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Rover Beret

Post by Sam Wallis » Thu May 31, 2012 7:49 am

Allan, possibly a beret awarded to an elite military group could be beter than what SC used to have? at some points comfort has to enter the equation.
Truth is a perception, and a individual perception is their truth

Angus Bickerton
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:55 pm
anti_spambot: 7
Location: Brockville, Ontario

Re: Rover Beret

Post by Angus Bickerton » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:34 am

Military berets are usually made of wool, not polyester, and they look excellent in the context of a military uniform. Scouts Canada never really had that quality of beret.

99% of the berets that I saw in the 70's and 80's were polyester, and we hated them! They were used as frisbees as much as they were used for headgear. Mine was the exception (I still have it), and no other scouts in my troop wore a wool beret, and few other scouts at area, council or jamboree events were wearing a wool beret.

Even then, the wool beret was hot, and I never wore it at scouting events in the summer time. It is not practical at all, and while some Rovers might like it, I am willing to bet serious money that most youth would really turn up their noses at a beret. I'll bring mine to our next Troop meeting and see what the youth think. ;)
Angus Bickerton
Troop Scouter
Brockville Troop
1st Brockville Group Committee
1st Gilwell 2011 (Colony) 2013 (Pack)

There is no armour made that can withstand the truth - Karsa Orlong

User avatar
Robert D White
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:53 am
anti_spambot: 0
Location: Guelph, Ontario

Re: Rover Beret

Post by Robert D White » Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:08 am

Personally, I like the beret. But then I wear hats all the time (everything from baseball caps to fedoras to Tilley hats - and, yes, an actual Tilley). The beret's lack of a brim during sunny weather is the only drawback for me. And I currently don't wear it, except around my Rover Scouts, because I really don't want to get into an argument about whether or not I should be wearing it.

I think the key issue here isn't the beret, but the fact that choice has been taken away from Rover Scouts. In a program that's supposed to be driven by the participants, they're now being told what they can't wear. And since Scouts Canada doesn't have any official headgear, being told they can't wear a beret smacks as being somewhat hypocritical.

I've said it before, if SC wants to regulate what type of headgear is allowed, they need to spell it out in plain language, rather than the namby-pamby, "there's no official headgear but if you want to wear something, wear a toque or bush-style hat" (a very loose paraphrase of BP&P). I'd rather they list what is allowed - with input from the participants - and then leave it up to them.

Otherwise, if we only have a uniform from the neck to the waist, why is everyone getting their knickers in a knot over a few Rover Scouts who want to wear a red beret? :D
Robert White
Group Commissioner, 1st Guelph Firefighter Venturers/1st Guelph Rovers
Chaplain, Wellington Area
I'm an ISTJ

firedog_53
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:39 am
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Rover Beret

Post by firedog_53 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:35 pm

Beret, such a classic look. I liked that mine was made of wool.. loved that is was possible to roll it up and stash it under your epillet (spelling?).
Not sure ALL rovers would want it back but, you never know ..
Just as long as I don't have to wear it, I'm good with it either way.
Wonder if we will see a return to the good ole' days of Wool Shorts, wool socks and garters? You can't tell me you didn't like those?
FD

norma
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:03 am
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Rover Beret

Post by norma » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:19 pm

Robert D White wrote:I think the key issue here isn't the beret, but the fact that choice has been taken away from Rover Scouts. In a program that's supposed to be driven by the participants, they're now being told what they can't wear. And since Scouts Canada doesn't have any official headgear, being told they can't wear a beret smacks as being somewhat hypocritical.
According to SC there *is* an official headgear now. It is the red baseball hat.
Though it is not written as that in the uniform information.
Q- What will the uniform clothing line include?
A- The new Scouts Canada uniforms encompass a dynamic line of youth and adult wear including polo tees, tech tees, ball caps, hoodies and yoga
pants, as well as increased availability of items exclusively tailored for women. All items are clearly branded with Scouts Canada logos and are designed
to mix and match to create a uniform look. Best of all, the price point of the new clothing line will be comparable to that of the old uniform.
(http://www.scouts.ca/uniform/pdfs/Scouts_Q&A.pdf)

And listed on the Facebook groups Uniform Q&A
30. Q: Are Rovers still allowed to wear the red beret?
A: (by Jessica) No, the red Rover beret has not been approved Scouts Canada head gear for many years and it is still not. The official Rover head gear includes the red baseball hat and the Tilley-style camp hat, available from Scout Shops.

Though if you check the "Pricing Guide" (http://www.scouts.ca/uniform/pdfs/rtk-pricing.pdf)
The hats are not included in the 'uniform' for any level (other than the hat for the Beavers)
The ball hat/camp hat that are included is more an 'activity uniform' headgear, where here they are asking for an option to wear a 'formal uniform' headgear.

I can understand telling them what they can't wear, we are a uniformed organization and setting up the uniform is the responsibility of national. You need to wear the uniform so that is essentially saying you cannot wear something else (uniform says to wear the tan or red shirt, which means its telling you you 'cannot' wear some random shirt) But when the existing uniform does not contain that uniform element (no formal headgear) then telling them they cannot respectfully wear a formal headgear that the Crew has chosen together to wear does not make sense.

firedog_53
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:39 am
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Rover Beret

Post by firedog_53 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:04 pm

The Scouts Canada uniform no longer includes official headwear. A field hat and toque, as
supplied by Scouts Canada’s Retail Services, are the only authorized headwear for wear with
the uniform when conditions warrant.
For now, according to BP&P, that is the policy. Even though, it appears outdated ..

FD

User avatar
makr
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:05 am
anti_spambot: 0
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Contact:

Re: Rover Beret

Post by makr » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:20 pm

It's my understanding that BP&P is still waiting to go through huge revision in regards to uniform and insignia. Basically that was going to be the focus until the cbc story hit, which changed the priority.

Angus Bickerton
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:55 pm
anti_spambot: 7
Location: Brockville, Ontario

Re: Rover Beret

Post by Angus Bickerton » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:41 am

firedog_53 wrote:Beret, such a classic look. I liked that mine was made of wool.. loved that is was possible to roll it up and stash it under your epillet (spelling?).
Not sure ALL rovers would want it back but, you never know ..
Just as long as I don't have to wear it, I'm good with it either way.
Wonder if we will see a return to the good ole' days of Wool Shorts, wool socks and garters? You can't tell me you didn't like those?
FD
:lol:

I loved them so much, that in dedication to the overwhelming feelings I had for them, I wore 'em only one night. ;)

Never again!!! The scouts in my troop were absolutely merciless with the teasing, and came up behind me and "snapped" the garters whenever I let my guard down. I got them because our Skip told us to in preparation for the jamboree we were about to attend. I was the. Only. One.

Switched back to jeans the next week.
Angus Bickerton
Troop Scouter
Brockville Troop
1st Brockville Group Committee
1st Gilwell 2011 (Colony) 2013 (Pack)

There is no armour made that can withstand the truth - Karsa Orlong

firedog_53
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:39 am
anti_spambot: 7

Re: Rover Beret

Post by firedog_53 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:24 pm

HA!
So, you must be young!
When I was a Scout, we "had" to wear them.. if it was too cold outside, we worn pants over them to our meeting place, then took them off. If you wore pants, you had to have a good reason or you were more or less asked to leave..

How times have changed! (I think for the better!).. Except I still can't get over seeing Leaders just dress from the waist up.. but then I am old.

FD

Post Reply