New registration procedures for Rovers

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Robert D White
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New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by Robert D White » Thu May 10, 2012 10:12 am

New Requirements for Registration of Volunteers (AL, SIT’s, Volunteers) for 2012 – 2013
Existing Members (prior to registration):
•Must complete reference checks, interview and PRC/Vulnerable Sector Check
•Must complete Wood Badge I for the section(s) they volunteer in.
•If already have Wood Badge I for their role(s):
•Complete AODA Training
•Complete Child & Youth Safety Training (expected May 2012)

New Volunteers (prior to working with youth):
•Must complete reference checks, interview and PRC/Vulnerable Sector Check
•Must complete module 1 of Wood Badge Part I
•Must complete other modules of Wood Badge Part I within 3 months of registering.
•Must complete AODA Training
•Must complete Child & Youth Safety Training (available May 2012)

Rovers (not registered as Volunteers):
•Must complete reference checks, interview and PRC/Vulnerable Sector Check
•We will no longer charge Rovers
The above are the new registration requirements National has implemented under the new Child & Youth Safety protocols. The new Rover protocol, introduced to the Crew last night. (The person introducing them is a CYC in another Council, but 1st Guelph is his home Crew when he's in town from university). In exchange for this new protocol, the registration fee for Rovers is $0.

Guess what: the Rovers don't like it! (Note: I wasn't at the meeting but was informed about the Rovers' displeasure by my son, who was there.)

I found out about the protocols at an Area meeting and told the AC, at that time, that this probably wouldn't receive a favorable response from the Rovers.

Can anyone tell me why Rovers are now being required to have a PRC, interview and reference check other than the reason that they are now over 18? Those who have been/will be involved in Section leadership accept the VRAD process as necessary. Those who just want to be Rover program participants don't see the need.

I'd like a rational, reasonable response that I can share with the Rovers.
Robert White
Group Commissioner, 1st Guelph Firefighter Venturers/1st Guelph Rovers
Chaplain, Wellington Area
I'm an ISTJ

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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by firedog_53 » Thu May 10, 2012 12:00 pm

Hmmm??
I would say "LINKING"...
you now have "youth" at camps with a whole lot of "adults" .. ?

The other posssible reason is they make good "fill ins" for leaders, its actually very easy (read that as "QUICK") to rush someone through the whole elearning process. If they have their PRC already, quite a stumbling block in some urban areas!, a few hours in front of a computer and VOILA, new leader!

Question might be, do we have a lot of current Rovers, who would not be able to get a Clear PRC?

We told our Rovers this week that while Scouts Ca says "free" and in return they must supply the PRC, we still intend to keep our group fee. We will do this if only to limit a sudden jump in registrations that will be short lived. As it is right now, we see new members each fall and they disappear right after registration, what will it be like if its "FREE"??

good luck!
FD

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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by Rick Gruchy » Thu May 10, 2012 12:06 pm

Robert,

If this statement is the official policy for next year, I suspect that Rovers are going to be required to be screened (including PRCs) because they are adult members of the organization. Personally, I feel that if you are going to be an adult (over the age of 18) member of the organization, you need to be properly screened regardless of your role.

I hope this is being properly explained to the Rovers. I feel the way to explain this move to them would be to treat it positively saying something like "As Rovers, you are in a position of leadership, trust, and respect within the Scouting Movement. With that trust and respect comes responsibilities. One of the responsibilities we have as adult members of the movement is that we must submit to screening." You probably use this as a spring board to a serious discussion about child and youth protection and the background as to why Scouts Canada needs to go in this direction.

YIS,

Rick

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Robert D White
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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by Robert D White » Thu May 10, 2012 12:51 pm

I've just been informed that my post was premature and that more information on this will be forthcoming. Can I ask that we hold off on further discussion until National releases its information?

I was going to delete the post, but can't figure out how. :?
Robert White
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New registration procedures for Rovers 2

Post by Scouter Richie » Tue May 15, 2012 9:20 am

Ok. A email came out from National yesterday out lining the changes for Rover Scouts. Since the old topic is locked until info comes out from National I'll start the discussion again and ask that the two topics be merged.
Dylan Reinhart NYC wrote: Fellow Rover Scouts,

When I am not working as your National Youth Commissioner, I am also an active member of my Rover Scout Crew near Peterborough, Ontario. In my five years as a Rover Scout I have become acutely aware of the challenges Rover Scout Crews face every day across the country to guarantee that their program remains relevant and accessible. Over the years my Rover Scout Crew has struggled with member retention, recruitment and engagement. That is why I am so excited today to talk to you a little bit about three exciting actions Scouts Canada is taking to better support the Rover Scout Program.

Retention

In the fall of 2011, Scouts Canada began a long journey of program review. A steering team was built of Scouters, youth members and external experts from across the country to review and help to improve our program. After the initial work had begun, five more teams were built to look at each of Scouts Canada's five core sections, including Rover Scouts. The Rover Scout Review Team has since been hard at work looking at our Canadian Rover Scout program, Rover Scout programs from other countries' National Scout Organizations and other organizations competing for the Rover Scout market.

The Rover Scout program needs to be more than just a social club, and it needs to not be viewed as a pool of potential volunteers. Rover Scouts should be a safe place for young adults to try new things, have adventures and achieve meaningful personal development with other like-minded young people.

Though things are just getting really started on the Rover Scout front, there are already great discussions happening and fantastic questions being asked on the team. But it can't stop there. Tell us how we can improve Rover Scouts while respecting the section's tradition and heritage so that more people will be inspired to join and fewer people will want to cut out early. There's a conversation happening on talkscouts, Scouts Canada's forum, all about Rovering. Please join in!

Recruitment

Early adulthood is a tough time for young people and, while Rover Scouts helps to navigate through all that, there are a lot of other competing interests for our time. Most of the Rover Scouts out there have a history and background in Scouting, whether they moved right through or left and came back. Ignoring the competition of School and work commitments, there are lots of other clubs and opportunities, especially at post-secondary institutions, that are also vying for a potential Rover Scout's time and attention. And they're notably less expensive.

Recognizing this Scouts Canada's National Leadership Team and Board of Governors have agreed to help give Rover Scouts more of a fighting chance. In the 2012-2013 Scouting year Scouts Canada will eliminate the Rover Scout registration fee. Some Councils have already eliminated their portion of the fee, and the rest will be following suit this fall. From 2012-2013 in beyond in Scouts Canada it is free to register as a Rover Scout.

Engagement

Scouts Canada's policies around screening adults who interact with youth under 18 has sometimes limited the opportunities for all Rover Scouts to engage fully in all of a Crew's program activities. Especially for social camps and service-focused events where there are youth under 18 present participating.

In the 2012-2013 Scouting year all members of Scouts Canada who are 18 and over, including Rover Scouts, will be required to submit a Police Record Check with a Vulnerable Sector Screening, undergo a screening interview and provide three references. This will help to ensure that Scouting for all program participants, both above and below the age of 18 will have the safest environment we can provide without requiring Beaver Scouts and Cub Scouts to know and recognize the difference between a Rover Scout and a young volunteer.

While in some cases this requirement may seem to present some challenges to Rover Scout Crews, it will open up the potential program opportunities. When all Rover Scouts are fully screened they can all participate actively together to provide service to younger sections and to camp and interact with Venturer Scouts.

Scouts Canada is committed to enabling Rover Scouts to thrive as a core program section of Scouts Canada. These three actions are proof of that and there is more to come. Gone, are the days that Rover Scouts are viewed as a group of young people who can be called on to volunteer with another section or to come out and staff some activity. Not that there's anything wrong with those things. Rover Scouts just needs to be a lot more than that.

Yours in Rovering,

Dylan Reinhart



National Youth Commissioner
Scouts Canada
YIS
Richie
Deputy Council Youth Commissioner - Youth Training & Special Events
Saskatchewan Council

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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers 2

Post by Scouter Richie » Tue May 15, 2012 9:49 am

The PRC and reference checks are going to a large barrier to new members. It also makes us into an elitist club.

Are Rovers still allowed to camp with Venturers? Or are they now treated as volunteers and require to be 2 deep at all times? I'd send a Scout with a Cub to go fill the jug of water but I can't send a Rover with a Venture to get tools.

Rovers are still YOUTH participants. They are not all Volunteers in waiting.
http://www.un.org/events/youth2000/def1.htm wrote: The United Nations General Assembly defined ‘youth’, as those persons falling between the ages of 15 and 24 years inclusive.
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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by Rick Gruchy » Tue May 15, 2012 10:54 am

Scouter Richie wrote:The PRC and reference checks are going to a large barrier to new members. It also makes us into an elitist club.
I am curious as to why you think this.

Rick

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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by ayates » Tue May 15, 2012 11:17 am

I think the key point is that legally Rovers are adults, and the public considers adults as adults, no matter what fancy terms are placed around them. So I suspect that even though Rover have their own little program, they will be treated as adult leaders whenever their are near kids. And that would include 2-deep, etc. And if you think about it, why would a 24 year old adult be any more trustworthy than a 28 year old adult? The only stake in the ground that matters, is the one at 18 that the government drew. One can agree or disagree, but those are the facts of life.

While I can't see any Rover's failing their reference checks, there will no doubt be some that fail their PRC. From past experience in trying to get a failed PRC approved for a potential leader, there is very little leeway on these (common sense doesn't come into the picture). And given the present climate, I would very much doubt that the leeway would increase.

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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers 2

Post by Robert D White » Tue May 15, 2012 2:18 pm

Scouter Richie wrote:The PRC and reference checks are going to a large barrier to new members. It also makes us into an elitist club.

Are Rovers still allowed to camp with Venturers? Or are they now treated as volunteers and require to be 2 deep at all times? I'd send a Scout with a Cub to go fill the jug of water but I can't send a Rover with a Venture to get tools.

Rovers are still YOUTH participants. They are not all Volunteers in waiting.
http://www.un.org/events/youth2000/def1.htm wrote: The United Nations General Assembly defined ‘youth’, as those persons falling between the ages of 15 and 24 years inclusive.
I've already asked about the two-deep question and am still awaiting an answer.

I've also asked about what will happen if a youth, through youthful indescretion, ends up doing something that will end up with a criminal charge and a mark on a PRC. So far the answer (although not from anyone at National) has been that they'll be disqualified from being a Rover.

Sort of defeats the purpose of a youth program that has, as part of its mission, the goal to "help build a better world where people are self-fulfilled as individuals and play a constructive role in society."
Robert White
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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by firedog_53 » Tue May 15, 2012 2:44 pm

Hmm...
this is a twist on the PRC thing .. can an adult join/belong to BP guild or whatever its called with out a PRC? Do all those who attend Guilwell Reunions have to have a PRC?

Next thought would be, why couldn't a Rover, just work with other Rovers. Just two "adults" hangin' out? Of course, would mean Moots would have to be either "all ROvers over the age of 18 " or no Rovers attending without a PRC (which, if its on their Registration would show up on our system, would it not?

FD

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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by bcbagheera » Tue May 15, 2012 3:05 pm

Blame the CBC for this one.....

Here in BC there are numerous social camps attended by Venturers, Rovers and senior Guiding sections. So even without being a volunteer we have a mix of young "adults" and "youth" without the Rovers taking on leadership positions. Any linking activity would also put them in contact (and I would hope that all crews do participate in linking activities). I cannot see any way after the going over we got, that National will be able to let anyone over the age of 18 not be properly screened. Whether the Rovers agree or not.

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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by Robert D White » Tue May 15, 2012 3:43 pm

bcbagheera said:
I cannot see any way after the going over we got, that National will be able to let anyone over the age of 18 not be properly screened. Whether the Rovers agree or not.
And the sad part is that some Rovers will disagree and we'll lose them.

Someone seems to have forgotten that young adults are the ones who test authority and often mistrust authority (i.e. some of the G8 rioters, etc.). There will be Rover Scouts who will see these new requirements and say goodbye to Scouting.

And for that I grieve.
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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by makr » Tue May 15, 2012 4:49 pm

I have no problems getting screened, and I suspect most others wouldn't have a problem with it either. The sticky point is the 2 deep policy and how to enforce that at a large camp like a jamboree or such.

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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by ayates » Tue May 15, 2012 5:49 pm

makr wrote:The sticky point is the 2 deep policy and how to enforce that at a large camp like a jamboree or such.
I don't understand what you mean. What is different at a jamboree from adult leaders being two deep and adult Rovers being two deep?

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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by makr » Tue May 15, 2012 7:00 pm

Trying to figure out how to explain it better.

Venturer applies to be OOS at CJ, they then become responsibility of the program activity lead or department head. Rover and three venturers are assigned to go do something. Technically under two-deep the rover would need another rover or leader to be there as well. Basically Rovers can't be alone at camp at all when there are younger sections in attendance.

Does that help?

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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by Robert D White » Tue May 15, 2012 7:21 pm

Mark,
Technically under two-deep the rover would need another rover or leader to be there as well. Basically Rovers can't be alone at camp at all when there are younger sections in attendance.
That would also depend on whether or not the Venturer Scout had been registered as a Leader and had completed the Wood Badge Part 1 training. Then the Venturer Scout could be counted for the two-deep leader ratio.
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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by ayates » Tue May 15, 2012 10:56 pm

makr wrote:Venturer applies to be OOS at CJ, they then become responsibility of the program activity lead or department head. Rover and three venturers are assigned to go do something. Technically under two-deep the rover would need another rover or leader to be there as well. Basically Rovers can't be alone at camp at all when there are younger sections in attendance.
That is correct. Two Rovers would have to be assigned to work with the three Venturers. Notwithstanding that many leaders interpret 2-deep as meaning not being along with a kid, and that one adult and multiple kids is OK (e.g. one leader taking a six on a hike).
Robert D White wrote:That would also depend on whether or not the Venturer Scout had been registered as a Leader and had completed the Wood Badge Part 1 training. Then the Venturer Scout could be counted for the two-deep leader ratio.
Where is this in BP&P? I can't find any reference to Venturers counting as ratio for Venturers. Even for SITs, who can count as ratio for Beavers & Cubs, this means they count towards the 1:6 adult to kid ratio. They do not count as an adult in the context of 2-deep. i.e. An adult + SIT is not 2-deep.

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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by ayates » Tue May 15, 2012 10:59 pm

Robert D White wrote:Someone seems to have forgotten that young adults are the ones who test authority and often mistrust authority (i.e. some of the G8 rioters, etc.)
I don't disagree, but if that testing of authority results in a criminal record (of nearly any type), then they will no longer be with us.

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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by apitman » Sun May 20, 2012 11:13 pm

Under this new order I am A medical Rover, Most of my company/crew is Ventures. There is only one other Rover in are Combined and we are not always at the same camp. I am 90% of the time parred with a venture we go by higher level with a lower level. Does this mean I can no longer have a Venture as a Partner in the field?

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Re: New registration procedures for Rovers

Post by ptoal » Tue May 22, 2012 8:58 am

I thought I had something to say, but changed my mind and deleted it.
Last edited by ptoal on Tue May 22, 2012 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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