Scouting Now: uniforms

Couple of replies to Aging;

First, once upon a time, Scouts Canada did make uniform shirts in women's sizes. Heck, they even had skirts, and if you go back far enough, full-length dresses! To the best of my knowledge, they stopped making women's uniform shirts when they switched to the tan uniform in 1991...BUT...I've heard it rumoured that they will be reintorduced this year.

As to warm weather shirts, the first issue of the tan uniforms (early 90s) were made of a much lighter weight material than we have right now. I picked up one of these older shirts at a thrift shop, had my wife cut and hem the sleeves, and TADA! light weight, short sleeved, warm weather uniform. All the other leaders in town are jealous.

This most original take on a light weight uniform shirt in a women's cut that I've seen was somebody who had picked up a United States Marine Corps female tan uniform shirt, and put the Scouts Canada badges on it.

Here are a couple of suggestions about the uniform.
Scouts Mexico has a button up shortsleeve shirt that is in a different bright colour for each section. It is tailored so it does not need to be tucked in. The colour coding does away with the need for epaulettes. I have a red Rover one, and I wear it all the time. Every youth member I meet wants one. It is a durable cotton knit that I have had since 2000. I usually wreck a Canadian scout shirt every two years. I have participated in Scouting in the UK, and admire their uniform. I rather think the Mexican model is more appropriate as far as quality and durability, as they have real mountains and real weather (sometimes really hot and sometimes bloody cold) like us.

Activity Uniform, Given the popularity of Cadets, I don't think a military style uniform FROM THIS CENTURY is uncool. What if we were to have a vest with the activity uniform that is actually useful rather than just pretty? I see a vest that already contains cool stuff in its many pockets. Compass, survival kit, water pouch. . .

I got real excited when I heard the idea of an activity uniform, and was real disappointed with the end result. I knew people on the youth committee that were blamed for the decision, and I know that in the past the youth committees were told what to think, and were not really allowed to make any actual decisions.

Cheers,
Wayne

What I have noticed with my Venturers is that its not as much what the uniform looks like that they don't like, but what it represents. The "cool" boys don't want their friends to know they are in Scouts. My female Venturer said about the boys in uniform in public "Their friends would think they are SuperNerds". We are thinking of floating the idea of a black quick dry shirt as a uniform (no silk screening or embroidering) and see their reaction.


Allan.

This means that Scouting itself in Canada has become so irrelevant that we are an object of ridicule in the eyes of the public. Nothing to do with the uniform really. You are not the only one to discover this from Vents. I am pretty sure we can all hear the same story from our youth.

Some good thoughts! Shows how different we all think! So, we know are thinking, at least is not uniform!

Steve from TBay offers a neat solution to long sleeves, but causes a whole new issue. Does altering the uniform not create a "non uniform" (look up uniform in the dic... oops, Wikapedia)

Older youth don't want to be associated with us in public.. its our "image" thing again! Not for all youth but for many. Youth aren't afraid to wear a uniform, just the "TAN"... Check the "Themed" program members in Venturers and Rovers and you will probably find those member LOVE/WANT to wear their "Service" uniform. Even to the point of asking if they can wear it to school. Now when was the last time you had a Venturer ask you if they could wear their Tan Uniform to School (for now reason other than it was "cool"?)

Someone else asked "does anyone ever wear a white shirt and tie"? Our group does wear white shirts and ties as their "Dress/Formal" uniform! IT LOOKS SHARP! (of course someone is now going to ask "were do you wear the badges"?) No badges, but if worn as a group, people quickley get the idea this is a REAL GROUP! Our Advisors have now asked for the TIE TACKS to display their Training levels instead of a woggle.

Our group wore the "tacky T-shirts" down on a trip in the US.. a group of teenagers, dressed in navy pants and orange Tshirts.. we had comments from the public we met but now of them refered to us as "TACKY"!

I have been a member since Cubs wore wool shorts and jerseys! (funny, you don't hear many leaders saying "lets go back to those" even though as outdoor gear they were more fitting then our new ones!) .. I still have an old Stetson but it stays in the closest where it belongs. Its not MY UNIFORM any more than the beret is now. I've worn a uniform for work for over a quarter of a century. I know why and how to wear it, doesn't mean I always like it, but I wore it.. but for SCOUTS, hey, tell me what to wear and fine, I will but honestly I DON'T GIVE A RATS BEHIND WHAT THE YOUTH WEAR! I love it when they do, but to be honest I am more concerned with them being there and having fun while learning for life.

okay, you can have the soap box back!

Oh, say "Hi" to your two new Rovers in TBay!

FD

Our Advisors have now asked for the TIE TACKS to display their Training levels instead of a woggle.

You may want to give that thought very serious consideration. They can be dangerous when worn in uniform as the points are very sharp. And they get lost very easily. I don't believe that they were ever really meant to be worn on today's uniforms.For a very short period of time when they first became available I wore 4 on my uniform pocket, they were different colours (yelloew, green light blue, red and dark blue) back then. They got lost in action, and I never replaced them. And a WB woggle is not required wearing unless you wear the WB Neckie.My group wears its own neckie, as do the group Scouters, and they only use the Beads and a personal (often self-made) woggle.

Errol, the different coloured Tie Tacks to identify what section you took you Gilwell Woodbadge Part 1 or 2 ie Yellow for Cub Scouts, Green for Scouts etc. was discontinued years ago in favour of a single colour Blue. Now if you want to know what Gilwell Part 2 Section, Comissioner, and or Group Committee was completed you ask the Scouter.A Part 1 tie tack that has no Maple Leaf identifies it as Part 1 completed and there is only 1 colour Blue.Errol, what is now proposed is a Silver symbol that is suppose to be attached to the Gilwell woggle to identify this Scouter as a Trainor Level 1, 11. or 111 much like the 3rd or 4th bead did years ago? Okay?

Woggle pin recognition. This consists of a silver axe in log pin that is placed in the weaves of the woggle. Two or three councils in the west use them and White Pine sees a requirement for them as well. Therefore they are not official as yet. The pin is to be given to training card holders who are actively training within the last couple of years. The pin maybe also used as recognition to a Scouter who may not be directly training but is contributing significantly towards training i.e. perhaps a Quartermaster for courses.

There are currently five accredited courses in Scouting: TD1 (trainer development 1); Woodbadge PT I per section of scouting; Woodbadge PT II (advanced training per section); Group Commissioners training; and National Commissioner’s training.
Errol, this is the Gilwell woggle idea.Is this Silver axe in Tie Tack Form? Probably?!!!

Voyageur Council uses the third and fourth Wood Badge beads to denote Trainer II and III status respectively. The different colour tie tacks are also in full use. I have four WB I (Colony (brown) Pack (yellow) Troop (green), Group Committee (navy blue) and one WB II (Colony (brown) tie tacks. I am awaiting my WB I Company (light blue) and Crew (red) tie tacks. They most certainly have not been done away with, at least not in this Council. This being said, Errol's point about the tacks is a good one. I have mine placed on a leather key fob that hangs from my pocket, instead of on the shirt, and I remove the key fob for camps, etc.

I for one don't support messing with the Gilwell woggle. It is an international symbol, and is now required wearing to denote the fact that the leader is properly trained, as Wood Badge I is now mandatory for all new leaders.

However, it does appear that this might be a recognition item that National needs to step into to regularize across the country, so that we know what things mean coast-to-coast.

I just got a second woggle to recognize my second WBI and its very small, going to be hard to put a necker thru it.

Errol, this is the Gilwell woggle idea.Is this Silver axe in Tie Tack Form? Probably?!!!

NO Jim, it's not. It's a Silver Gilwell Log and Ax with a special pin on the back allowing you to push it through the woggle weaves.

@edit: typo

Voyageur Council uses the third and fourth Wood Badge beads to denote Trainer II and III status respectively. The different colour tie tacks are also in full use. I have four WB I (Colony (brown) Pack (yellow) Troop (green), Group Committee (navy blue) and one WB II (Colony (brown) tie tacks. I am awaiting my WB I Company (light blue) and Crew (red) tie tacks. They most certainly have not been done away with, at least not in this Council. This being said, Errol's point about the tacks is a good one. I have mine placed on a leather key fob that hangs from my pocket, instead of on the shirt, and I remove the key fob for camps, etc.

I for one don't support messing with the Gilwell woggle. It is an international symbol, and is now required wearing to denote the fact that the leader is properly trained, as Wood Badge I is now mandatory for all new leaders.

However, it does appear that this might be a recognition item that National needs to step into to regularize across the country, so that we know what things mean coast-to-coast.

This is as it should be Angus, 3 beads = Trainer II, and 4 beads = Trainer III, status.

As far as the different colour tie tacks are concerned, they are NOT supplied by the Scout Shop and are absolutely local usage.
I still have my whole set: 2 each of Yellow, Green, Light Blue, Dark Blue and Purple. There was never any Brown for Beavers although your Council may be using one now. I have never seen one myself.
Part I WB was a tie tack with the compass point only, and Part II was a tie tack with the compass symbol superimposed on a Maple Leaf. The basic pin was gold.

There are currently five accredited courses in Scouting: ...; and National Commissioner’s training.

I have never heard of National Commissioner's Training Jim, please elaborate.

Thank you, Errol for the clarification about the Silver Axe and Log award for the Gilwell woggle and that there is only one colour Tie Tack available at the Scout Shot and it is Blue.I cut and pasted Ken B, our Algonquinte long time training Coordinator's comment about a National Course. I am not sure if he meant the reintroduction of the Gilwell Wood Badge Part 1 and 2 Service Team" For those who help others" Wood Badge course or an addition to TD 1 that would reintoduce "The methods and needs" and "The working with groups " Trainor development courses. I will talk to Ken and ask him what he meant? Thanks again.

Here is a link to the "accredited" courses that are supposed to be put on this year in Voyageur (the triangle of Eastern Ontario from Kingston to Cornwall to Pembroke-ish, centred on Ottawa) Council:

http://www2.scouts.ca/dnn/voy/Training/ ... fault.aspx

note that TD-1 and TD-2 now appear to be called Trainer WB I and Trainer WB II respectively, and likewise there is a Service/Support Scouter WB I and WB II. Perhaps this is part of standardizing course content across the country. I think Voyageur is used regularly by National as a first run for a lot of things, simply because of proximity (our Council offices are in the National HQ). Truly, this is the kind of thing that should have a standard format and content as a minimum standard right across the country.

What I would love to see are more outdoor skills courses. There is a one-day winter outdoor skills this Saturday that I really wanted to take, but it is during our local Santa Claus parade, which our Beavers and Cubs can't miss. This is the only winter outdoor skills course offered on the calendar. WB I just mentions some skills (telling you what you don't know), and WBII spends only 1.5 days on it.

Angus, I haven't had good luck with the Voyageur council outdoor skills course in the past, so I would recommend you get the full syllabus ahead of time so you can try an ensure enough material will be covered. Actually, I just found the winter skills course you mentioned, and content looks good to me for a one day indoor session. I would recommend this course based on what I see. For people who can't make the course, like yourself, it would be good if the instructor would make their training material available online for people to reference.

A course they offer, that I would highly recommend, is the Boat Rescue course. A number of people don't like it, but I think it is amazing.

I do completely agree that more, and more thorough, outdoor skills courses would be very valuable. One person I know is trying to get a canoe tripping course off the ground, like used to exist, but it doesn't seem to be making headway. I had been asked to help instruct on this one. A pioneering course would be good too. One has been tried a number of times, not sure if it went through in the end, but the main problem here seemed to be finding enough interest in the leaders to take it.


Allan.