POPCORN

For those who wish to discuss POPCORN.
MY Group loves the Popcorn and does really well with it. I am completely positive with the sale of Popcorn.

Ah, popcorn. Our group does OK, but we do not push it that much.

1. Have a hard time with 50% +- going somewhere else than the group selling.
2. You don't have the product on hand to sell immediately.
3. Lowest price item is or was $8.
4. Generally expensive stuff.
5. Administrative and distributive nightmare, especially hounding people to hound other people for money.
6. Make almost the same amount of money on apple day - one day = all kids participate + parents + about 90% return to group + all cash +++++
7. Seems to be forced fundraising like Scouttrees.
8. People are more receptive to what they remember - ie. Apple Day!!! Scout Popcorn??
9. The 'prizes' for selling are cereal box quality at the lower ranges.
10. Comes in at the worst time for fundraising - directly competing with schools, winter sports clubs, you name it.

In general, join Scouts to sell popcorn - great way to kick off the 09/10 season.

I will acknowledge that some groups, like Errol's in Europe, may do quite well with popcorn, but quickly frankly for us popcorn sucks, and if it wasn't a "national" fundraiser we just would not do it.

I agree with BalooTwo's take, and some of my comments are repetitious to his, but for what it's worth, here's what I think:

• Should we go into the debate that kids shouldn’t be salespeople? They should be Scouts, Cubs and Beavers. That fundraising should perhaps be the responsibility of adults, or that perhaps youth should be “earning” the money through bottle or scrap metal drives, carwashes, clean ups, etc. . .

• Popcorn is overpriced for my group’s market. Girl Guide cookies go for under $5. The cheapest popcorn product is a can of kernels for almost $10, hardly an appealing impulse buy. The average priced item is more than $15, which where we live, is pause for thought for many consumers and parents.

• There is too much variety. It is subtly suggested that we’re only selling “popcorn”, but in reality we’re selling almost a dozen different popcorn products priced from about $10 to almost $50. And the product line gets larger every other year. Few leaders know the product line, few parents know the product line, and certainly very few kids know or care about the product line.

• Buying (or making a sale of) Girl Guide cookies takes less than a minute. Buying (or making a sale of) Scout popcorn takes five minutes.

• We’re forced to sell popcorn in October when everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is selling and fundraising. It’s a very competitive fundraising market, in the time of kids (parents) who are at the very least fundraising for their school, and probably one or two other causes or organizations, all while they’re getting hit by other fundraising campaigns.

• It’s too close to Apple Day. Though I know many areas don’t do apples, but no sooner do we get the kids and some parents to volunteer a Saturday to raise money, then we whack them with the popcorn campaign. Many a parent new to scouting must ask themselves is fundraising all there is to scouting?

• Delivery is problematic. Can they ever consistently deliver the popcorn products to our area on time without fuss? No. Every other year as Christmas creeps closer, buyers ask where’s their popcorn, kids’ parents get angry and vow not to sell popcorn again, and the leaders are stuck in the middle.

• Prizes or premiums, in our experience, that take almost six months to deliver. What’s with that? Someone can’t stick the cheap t-shirt, fill-it-up crest or whatever in the mail? This past year our kids didn’t get theirs until June. That’s worse than the popcorn delivery.

• As a fundraiser this one sucks up time and energy both for the kids (parents) who get involved and the leaders, who have to sort the money and the orders. The campaign, as we run it, is three weeks, but the issues drag on, waiting for delivery, sorting the orders, troubleshooting, premiums, etc. . .

• I know there are possible workarounds for some of the issues, notably buying upfront and then selling the stock. But to my mind this takes more effort, storage space, money we haven’t got tied up in stock, a product that doesn’t sell quickly, and an unattractive burden that never seems to end.

• I don’t know about other councils, but ours treats popcorn as a tax. Every year it seems their share creeps up and our share creeps down. And there is no ceiling to their cut. The more your group sells, the more council takes. This may lead into a discussion on how councils should be funded, but when a group fundraises, the group should be fundraising for itself, not for council. Just has high taxes creates an incentive for people to work under the table, high and on-going shares for councils creates an incentive (almost a need) for groups to do other fundraisers where they work solely for themselves and it diminishes the effort groups put into popcorn.

• For the time and effort, we do significantly better with other fundraisers.

What I want in any fundraiser:

• Less stressful for youth, parents and leaders

• Shorter time frame

• A timing of our own choice (or at the very least, not in the fall)

• Council to keep their paws off our money. Send us a bill for services rendered (or rather the services not rendered), but don’t place a never-ending tax on our income.

I have to agree with most of the points above.

My main gripe about popcorn is that we're openly asking people to pay over the market rate for something so we can use the extra profit to support our activities (This also applies to apple day). To my mind this is tantamount to asking for a handout - is this a value we want to instill in the youth ?

Surely we want the youth to understand the value of earning money ? To my way of thinking car washes or even bottle drives are more in line with our core values. I see that UK Scouts are earning money by grocery packing in Supermarkets.

I agree with most of the thoughts above, with the exception of a few points. Yes the popcorn is expensive (I wish the prices were lower), but so are most charity fund drive products. I have worked my kids school on fundraising efforts. Most companies offer about 20-40% back to your organization, some offer more but they are far and few between. We are not teaching our kids to look for handouts if the price of the product is higher than what its worth, I believe it is understood. Those chocolate bars many groups sell are not worth $3.00, nor is the girl cookies worth $5.oo a box but we buy them anyways to benefit that particular organization. I also think that when a child does really well selling popcorn, the parents have had a huge part in that. Alot of kids and organizations do not condone going door to door, and I don't believe Scouts does either.
I wish the popcorn campaign was a different time of year. Delivering popcorn in December adds to an already busy time of year.
The prizes have improved - we noticed it last year and they promised even better prizes this year. If the prizes are really good, then it helps motivate the kids. Depending on your group size, the popcorn campaign is a huge money maker for the year. Many groups do not do any other fundraising.
Regardless of the fundraiser, there is a lot of time involved whether it is the leaders or the parents. We have someone who we have designated our "popcorn lady". She takes care of all the money, ordering, prizes and pickup. The parents then pick up the popcorn from her house and deliver it those who ordered. She is always recognized well because we realize what a difficult job it is to do.
I also think that the attitude of the leaders in selling popcorn will be reflected in their group. We have a huge popcorn campaign starter night and encourage them every time we see them. We tell them to look at the prize list and aim their sales to get that particular prize. When the kids get a prize or a special badge for selling a lot of popcorn, we make sure we recognize them as well. Our group also gives a prize to the top selling beaver, cub and scout plus to the highest seller overall. Generally we have a successful popcorn campaign so we are able to offer discounts on camps, subsidize scouting fees or do other special things. The kids get excited because the leaders are excited.

Well, there seems to be agreement here. About the price, last year it was $15 for a box of 15 microwave. That is $1 per bag- sounds reasonable. But some stores, you can get 6 bags for 2.99 or 50 cents a bag. Generally better quality popcorn. I think it is the amount. Would not a box of 5 bags for $5 be an easier sell? smaller lighter and you just need to ask for $5 not $15.

Anyways, who said October, there is some sort of Popcorn kick-off thing at Dundas Square in Toronto on Sept 3. Volunteer youth are being asked to come out. So I have a feeling national is going to really press hard for funding, ahh.. I mean popcorn sales. If groups went back to the basics of fundraising - bottle drives, car washes, apple day, even local commercial products, fairs, markets, etc., and NOT sell popcorn, I think national is sunk, as well as come Councils. So, popcorn is here to stay. At least it isn'thot chocolate....

I disagree that most charity fund drive projects are expensive. Some are, some aren’t. The majority my kids got caught up in weren’t. That’s my experience in my community, though yours may be different in your community.

Most people realize there is a “donation” premium when buying a fundraiser, and the size of the premium as well as the cause, determine whether a person will buy. A buck or two on an chocolate bar or box of cookies under $5 is an easy impulse give for almost any youth organization. Five or six bucks on a $15 box of microwave popcorn is far less so for many of my group’s families, and $15 on a $50 three-way or five-way tin (that they wouldn’t buy at a regular price) isn’t at all. And quite frankly, as a group commissioner, I’d rather have a person give a $50 donation directly to the group (or even a $25 donation) then purchase such an overpriced product that might get $15 for the group.

Scouts Canada doesn’t have a stated policy for or against youth selling popcorn door-to-door, but most of its popcorn promotional material is geared to youth, not parents or leaders, and its safety advice indicates in text and illustration that youth should be selling door-to-door.

It may be that some groups do not do any fundraising other than popcorn, but I have not met anyone from such a group. And certainly groups in my area and other areas that I have had contact with depend on other fundraisers to keep going. So I find it hard to believe “many” groups rely solely on popcorn when I have yet to come into contact with ONE.

If there is one out there, I’d be interested in hearing from them.

I think the attitude of the leaders will reflect the success of the fundraiser. If the fundraiser is problematic, as I outlined about popcorn before, they will not have enthusiasm, nor will the kids or the parents who are already suffering fundraising fatigue.

Fundraisers like apple day and carwashes are one-day or half-day events that can be easy fun, easy to set up, build youth-leader-parent relationships, and are almost as productive as the popcorn campaign. In fact, when one considers the time and effort, they are more productive than popcorn.

A final beef, I’m really sick of the rah rah effort SC has to put into popcorn. As someone in another thread noted they seem to put more effort into promoting popcorn then promoting scouting or attracting new members. The Leader gets turned into an advertising supplement for Trails End. And as a group commissioner I get more paper about selling popcorn than anything else, especially important issues like how council is spending that popcorn money.

Yes, BalooTwo, I haven't registered a single youth yet for the new Scouting year, but we already have plenty of information about selling popcorn. We get a big launch in the urban centres, like Toronto, in September for popcorn but no launch to attract new members or promote Scouting in general. Priorities, I guess. We won't get into our popcorn campaign until after Apple Day.

Ken, you are right, I did mis-speak and I apologize for that. I do not know of any group that relies solely on popcorn but I do know that, for some groups, it is the largest portion of their fundraising. I agree that our popcorn is not an impulse buy and if my kids and I were not involved in scouts, I'm not sure we would participate in the popcorn campaign. My group discourages door to door sales but we also know that some kids do it anyways. I wish Scouts Canada would come up with a better product for a fundraiser - something that is associated with Scouts not Trails End; something like the Girl Guide cookies. I think Christie makes the cookies but the cookies themselves are associated with Girl Guides not Christie (?).

We could have a discussion on how horrible the new Girl Guide cookies are compared to the original ones

I agree with most of what has been written. Apple Day is a much better fundraiser. Our group sells popcorn, but I wouldn't say that we push it. I can only get the Scouts excited about a limited number of things. I reserve excitement for things that are important, like knot tying.

A question: In Canada, 60% of the gross revenue is profit for Scouting. In the US, it is 70%. Why the difference?

I stand to be corrected, but I believe (from last years) it was up to 60%. The boxes of microwave popcorn were 60% and the larger tins were only 45%.

Also, to add to my list

11. You need to order full cases of popcorn. So, if you only need 3 boxes of microwave popcorn, you need to order a full case of 6. (i bought up last years extra - does anyone want some almost 1 year popcorn???)

Interesting point about BSA getting more than SC.

I note that this year's SC popcorn website (http://www.scouts.ca/popcorn/english/consumers/) says:

"More than 70% of your purchase goes to help boys and girls in your local group."

This is untrue on two counts, first Canadian Scouts only get a 60 per cent share, and less than half of that stays with the group.

Apparently this summer Northern Ontario council offered to send someone to our area to give a popcorn sales seminar. Our council did not offer to send someone to our area to give a youth recruitment seminar.

Toronto (and I understand other large urban centres) put together an event in the downtown involving youth and adult volunteers, attractions (Argo cheerleaders), and gave away 30,000 free bags of popcorn to promote popcorn sales.

If a comparable event has been held anywhere in Canada to promote youth recruitment, I haven’t heard of it, but would sincerely like to.

Today I collected the following from my area commissioner:

- One giant (3 x 6 ft) plastic poster to promote popcorn sales
- Five very large (24 x 40 in) full colour posters to promote popcorn sales by youth
- 10 still large (18 x 24 in) full colour posters to promote popcorn sales
- 10 almost as large, (17 x 22 in) full colour posters to promote popcorn sales

That's a popcorn promotion poster for every second youth in my group, but I haven’t received a single poster of any size to promote youth recruitment.

I also received:

- Approximately 50, 16-page catalogue/order forms for popcorn sales, and 10 small Scout Shop catalogues
- Approximately 20 one-page double-sided, full colour popcorn order sheets, but not a single single-sided flyer of any description to promote youth recruitment
- A dozen latex balloons (not exactly environmentally friendly) promoting popcorn sales. No balloons (environmentally friendly or otherwise) promoting youth recruitment
- one CD training seminar for popcorn sales, but no CD training seminar to promote youth recruitment
- one large sized, foam ear of corn hat (evidently to promote popcorn sales), but absolutely no small premiums or items to promote youth recruitment

By the way, we just had registration this week, and meetings (with more registrations) start next week.

What does all this say about Scouts Canada's priorities?

That's right, Scouts Canada, a retail division of Trail's End popcorn. They don't have to pay staff commission to sell the stuff, they have a free labour market.

Scouter Ken, same here. With no Beaver leaders, we are overrun with popcorn sales stuff. There was a large kick-off thing in Toronto, and I understand a Council had a training session at a racetrack. How much money is being poured into the marketing campaign? I hope it is being off-set by the reduction in paid staff salaries oopss that is simply another post.

I would really like to speak to policy on Fundraising.

This is in regards to the prizes. Whether the popcorn company donates them, or the councils buy them is irrelevant.

Copied and pasted from BP&P

11000.3 – POLICY GUIDELINES
(iv) All funds raised for Scouting and/or in the name of Scouts Canada must be used for
Scouts Canada purposes only.

Arguably, a Council can state that the gift program is a Scouts Canada purpose, but read a little further into BP&P. . .

11001 – FUNDING PRINCIPLES
(i) Scouts Canada exists for the youth of Canada and all fundraising will be conducted
for the sole purpose of fulfilling the Mission of the organization. All fundraising
activities will be conducted within the Policies and Procedures of Scouts Canada.

It seems clear to me that the intent of the first clause is similar to the first one. Yet however, the principles clause is stating that clearer. In order for the practice of giving prizes and gifts to not break policy, we must change the mission of the organization. Here is my suggestion:
The mission of Scouts canada is to contribute to the education of young people by:
giving them telescopes and teeshirts as prizes

What are we about, really. I understand that we are all generous by nature, and may have difficulty with the idea that these prizes may be wrong. We must realize that we need ALL the money to fulfill the REAL mission of Scouting. We will be more pleased with our generosity knowing we have used that resource to make a REAL impact on our young brothers and sisters.

Cheers,
Wayne