My Dream Support System (MMS but amazing)

So you are two weeks before camp/hike/activity. First you check in with Dream Support System online. (DSS shorthand form here on in) You select your activity type, type in your destination and date/times. Up comes details from three other recent groups who went up, as well as their emergency plan, and borrow what you need. Now you select which youth and adults you are inviting, and send it off.

All the parents, youth, volunteers and commissioners that need to be notified are. The parents can give permission online, or you can update yourself. The group commissioner and group committee can approve, as well as the area commissioner .

After your deadline, you can log back in, check up on the progress of all the parts, and print off the medical records of the people coming (with one click I might add).

No more paper chasing, no more end of year fussing about getting paperwork done. Now Scout's Canada can check on the information if something were to go wrong. Even better, if you left a "Not returned by" deadline for the trip, the system could contact the correct people to start looking.

Now the Fun part. Not only would we have an online climbing count of members, but we could have the number of hikes, camps, service projects, little old ladies helped across the street through out the year. Gives a little more exposure to the world about what we do for society.

Comments, questions, concerns welcome.

Nick

Hi Nick,
That system sure sounds wonderful and I would love to see something like that take form. But alas, I think it is only a dream. Unfortunately, despite the technolical age, not everyone is that computer savvy and nor do they want to be. Many parents in my group do not even have computers. But there are programs that do help you track hikes, camps etc for your group. Have you heard of Cubsys? I recently downloaded it into my computer and so far I really like it. I can't wait until september when I can start using it for the whole pack. It is also available for scouts and venturers.

Yes, only a dream. Technology probably can do it, but it is that horse and water thing. You can point the horse to the water, but will they drink? Cubsys is a wonderfully confusion and after 2 years, I went back to the good old paper copy. One hour or less a week to update, and I can show the cubs and parents where there are lacking in badge requirements right at the end of the meetings. Taking a step further into old old school and keeping track in the cubs individual cub books never ever worked. Each youth had a file slot in the covetted accordian file folder.

It comes down to whatever works, dream or reality.

Thank you for the response.

I took a look at the cubsys and other programs. May look into them further.

But I think you missed my point. I would never dare force this style of admin on any leader. If they have their own system that works (paper, spreadsheet, cubsy, etc) then by all means stick with it. I'm am trying to bring up discussion about what improvements that could be made. All systems have their pro's and con's.

Isn't the point of this forum to talk about what can and should be done? Perhaps we could go into discussion of what different options are, and their pro's and con's. Then by working through, we can see what con's we can make disappear and new pro's we can add.

Perhaps the present MMS sytem can be adapted to this. After all it is adapted to show all Leader training and accomplishments

I pretty sure you missed my point. Dreamland or reality, any importments will not mean anything if it is not going to be used, to cumbersome to use or to expensive to operate. In dealing with this issue, it should not stray to the unique or uncommon. Develop something that can be used on-line and home-based without anything special. Develop within the existing easy-to-use and well-known programs like Microsoft Excel or Access. The MMS system is a basic accounting program, almost payroll like in nature - useless at a section level.

Until someone creates something of any worth, and I don't think Cubsys is, then it is paper for me.

I would have to concur that any system developed would have to be in common platform. I would think that it would need to be entirely web browser based. I don't care how common some programs like excel are, I am not purposely installing microsoft crap on my mac. I am sure I am not alone. There most certainly are programmers capable of creating a system so that all we have to do is happily enter our data and not worry about how it works. The issue with databases is they clog and wear down. they need to be constantly maintained by a professional, not a field exec or administrative assistant who does not fully understand the nature of the beast. I am sure the MMS worked just fine before any data was entered.

I am sure the MMS worked just fine before any data was entered.

No, MMS was a white elephant before it was even released. It's approach to data entry and maintenance is architecturally flawed. It is obvious that a GUI entry/edit screen was wrapped around each table in the data base. Since actual functional operations are not performed on a single table (e.g. moving a kids from Cubs to Scouts), it makes every operation horrendously complex, inefficient, and painful.

Speaking as someone in the software development industry, any of the web programmers at my company could have wrapped a decent GUI around the MMS database, that would do 90% of what groups need, in a week. There is no excuse for it to have been developed so poorly in the first place, and no need for it to have lived longer than the first person trying to use it. It's a disaster equal to the hot chocolate fiasco; except worse in that it hasn't been canned.


Allan.

No, MMS was a white elephant before it was even released. It's approach to data entry and maintenance is architecturally flawed. It is obvious that a GUI entry/edit screen was wrapped around each table in the data base. Since actual functional operations are not performed on a single table (e.g. moving a kids from Cubs to Scouts), it makes every operation horrendously complex, inefficient, and painful.
Speaking as someone in the software development industry, any of the web programmers at my company could have wrapped a decent GUI around the MMS database, that would do 90% of what groups need, in a week. There is no excuse for it to have been developed so poorly in the first place, and no need for it to have lived longer than the first person trying to use it. It's a disaster equal to the hot chocolate fiasco; except worse in that it hasn't been canned.
Allan.

Sorry Allan, but with all due respect, it would seem to me that you might have volunteered some of your knowledge
That's what I would have done.

My knowledge of programming is limited but from what I do know I will agree with Alan. MMS is a poorly designed and implemented system. It was quickly overwhelmed when it was introduced, and still does not function the way such a database should.

Whether Alan offered assistance is moot. A few years ago (in fact for a looonnnggggg time now) SC has ignored and rejected input from the membership. And despite the introduction of social networking, I believe that attitude is still dominant -- "Don't tell us, just do what you're told."

"Don't tell us, just do what you're told."

Everybody keeps telling me that...why is that absolutely not my personal experience. I have never in my almost 55 years as a Scouter had that kind of a reply from anybody ever. And certainly no Staff member that I have ever dealt with has said anything remotely close to that. Must be me I guess

[quote="Wayne Gosche"]I would have to concur that any system developed would have to be in common platform. I would think that it would need to be entirely web browser based. I don't care how common some programs like excel are, I am not purposely installing microsoft crap on my mac.


Come on Wayne. You know you don't need to install Excel in order to use it. Open Office works just fine.

Garth
Alberta

I think this is really more like the Program Builder Online (http://pbo.scouts.ca/pol/login.do;jsess ... 7D2F58CD4F) plus a making it easier piece around planning.

I'll tell you what - that's a good idea - a heck of a good idea.

Now, while it's not something I can effect too easily (but I will promise to start talking about it as much as I can) - here's what I am going to do that's in my part of the ship (and kindof silly that I haven't done before, to be honest). By Christmas of this year, I will have the emergency plan and basic forms for any activity at a Chinook Council Camp up on our website. That will make it easier for a Scouter to plan and bring a group of youth to one of our camps.

As well, by next January, I will have a series of Council "hard to plan" activities planned and up online. Here's what I'm looking at:

- rock climbing
- dog sledding
- winter camping
- white water rafting
- horse packing
- a canoe trip

Now - I can't guarantee that all of these will be available right away (some require some negotiation - dog sledding in particular may be difficult), but I will guarantee that some of them will.

We all need to make it easier for Scouters and Kids to deliver the program the kids expect so that we can double in members over the next five tears!

-

Are you thinking that some of these are "bought in" activities, or is the intention that the leaders will have the necessary skills? While winter camping is within the range of the vast majority of leaders, rock climbing (the real stuff) is a whole different ball game.

I do think that providing leaders with pre-written plans will help them. It won't be enough for all (i.e. some leaders would still not feel comfortable enough), but I think it would help some of them. A very good initiative. I collect and publish canoe tripping plans on our website for this specific reason.


Allan.
http://www.1stmerrickville.ca

Well, it's all about paperwork elimination.

Current system: Hours making risk plans / hospital locations / permission forms etc

Dream system:

Leader goes to superMMS
Selects I want to do a Camp
Enters location (if someone has done a plan, it's in otherwise they have to do an emerg plan)
Hits advertise to groups - email
Parents/Youth hit "I'm coming"

List of who is attending comes up
Medical condensed form is printed for the entire camp along w/ approvals/paperwork.

Suddenly a 5hr job is turned into 30 min.