INTERACTIVE FORMS & APPLICATIONS

In the past the Scouter and Youth application forms could be filled in on-line and then saved to your own computer.
I see that with the 2009-2010 registration forms that this is not possible any longer. WHY?
Further I would like to suggest that ALL FORMS: registration, Honours Applications, etc., be made interactive so that they CAN be filled in and saved.
This would make life an awful lot easier for those of us who have to fill in these forms.
Thanks for your consideration to this matter which I know has been discussed earlier.
YiSF

Errol Feldman

I can open, use and save Scouts Canada's 2009-10 forms using the Firefox browser on my computers at home (a Mac) and at work (a Dell - ugh).

I can also do it at home using Apple's browser -- Safari, but I don't use MS Explorer at all, so I don't know if it's possible to handle PDFs the same way with that browser.

So perhaps its just a matter of checking some settings on your browser.

YiS

Scouter Ken

Thanks Scouter Ken,
I will download Firefox and try that.
YISF

Thanks Scouter Ken,
I will download Firefox and try that.
YISF

Well, I still get the message at the top: "Please fill out the following form.You cannot save data typed into this form.
Please print your completed form if you would like a copy for your records"

We used to be able to save the completed form to our computer.
YISF

I wouldn't think the choice of browser would make a difference since the browser doesn't directly manipulate a PDF file. Browsers use the Adobe Acrobat Reader plug-in. Click on the picture to download the latest Adobe Acrobat Reader.

Browser does NOT make a difference Karl. I am using Adobe 9.1.0 READER and I still get the same message on the forms on the website. I will ask Ron Loves, because I think that all the forms are still NOT interactive and can not be saved when filled in; nor can the form first be saved and then filled in and saved filled in.

I'm scratching my head over what the problem might be, but I am pretty sure it is not with the forms that can be downloaded from the Scouts Canada website. The YPPEF and AMAV are set up as forms and can be filled in within the Acrobat Reader.

They cannot be saved with data using the 'Save' option, but they can be printed to a file by using the 'Print' function then enabling the "Print to file" option in your printer driver. Personally, I dislike PDF forms because if you've made a mistake you have start over.

I'm scratching my head over what the problem might be, but I am pretty sure it is not with the forms that can be downloaded from the Scouts Canada website. The YPPEF and AMAV are set up as forms and can be filled in within the Acrobat Reader.

They cannot be saved with data using the 'Save' option, but they can be printed to a file by using the 'Print' function then enabling the "Print to file" option in your printer driver. Personally, I dislike PDF forms because if you've made a mistake you have start over.[/quote]

Now you've got it Karl; exactly my point. In the past the Application and registration forms COULD be saved with the save option. MY suggestion is that ALL FORMS on the website should be of this kind so that when they are filled in the can be saved using the save option.

In the December Commissioners Memo this was also a request:

"Recognition Network
The group discussed the work plan that was developed prior to this year. Processes and forms will be improved to make award submissions clearer and easier to process efficiently. It was also recommended that the forms need to be more computer friendly so that the average person can fill them in on the computer, save them and forward them electronically. "

As far as I can see nothing has happened here as yet.

NOW I am suggesting that it be carried a few steps further and that ALL forms be made in this fashion.
YISF

I think what you are asking for is difficult to implement given Scouts Canada's privacy policy (BP&P 12000). How can National demonstrate compliance with their privacy policy with all sorts of electronic copies of personal information sitting on scouter hard drives? Sure it's going on today but at least National can claim that they are "doing their best". Also, there's probably an agenda around getting the data into MMS where it is visible to all levels of Scouts Canada, and more readily managed (in theory ).

Your average scouters can't be expected to know much about how to safely store and transmit personal information. I am sure you are encrypting any such files that might exist on your hard drive, and passing them around using PKI or some other secure means that guarantee that your intended recipient is the only one who can open the files, but what about the thousands of others who have no idea what I am talking about.

In order to implement what you are asking for, I think Scouts Canada has to rethink the way we deal with records from the ground up. Why do we collect all this paper, reproduce it for every event or outing and submit dozens of copies of it over the year for archive, when it should be collected once, stored electronically, and aggregated as needed to produce a record of the event? Why are we slaying so many trees?

In my copious free time , I am working on a web-based event registration system that may help reduce the administrative overload around scouting. The trick is balancing privacy with ease of use.

(Hmmm, that sounds like a good project for a virtual Rover Crew...)

Errol, I wish you lived down the block or somewhere closer than Europe, I'd come over and check your Firefox settings.

As I said I can open, use and save (and then change them and save them again) Scout Canada forms. Unfortunately I'm not computer savvy enough to figure out how to explain how to do that in a forum.

If you can't do this using Firefox's own PDF download manager, try visiting pdfdownload.org. They have a Firefox and MS Explorer add-on that might be able to do this for you, and they also have an online pdf--to--word converter that might be helpful.

YiS

Scouter Ken

Errol, I wish you lived down the block or somewhere closer than Europe, I'd come over and check your Firefox settings.
As I said I can open, use and save (and then change them and save them again) Scout Canada forms. Unfortunately I'm not computer savvy enough to figure out how to explain how to do that in a forum.
If you can't do this using Firefox's own PDF download manager, try visiting pdfdownload.org. They have a Firefox and MS Explorer add-on that might be able to do this for you, and they also have an online pdf--to--word converter that might be helpful.
YiS
Scouter Ken

Ken, we do live close to each other. I have SKYPE: < oldwolfgilwell >
or you can send me a telephone number privately at < oldwolfgilwell@tiscali.nl > and I will telephone you. I have a special account with my provider because I have to call Canada so often., so it only costs me €2.00 per hour.
YISF

Hello all, A simple way around all this is to "print" to a pdf writer.
http://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp
CutePDF Writer installs itself as a "printer subsystem". This enables virtually any Windows applications (must be able to print) to create professional quality PDF documents - with just a push of a button!

Download the free version of Cutepdf and when you print select 'cute pdf'. it will prompt you for a file name. store it on your hard drive. its that easy.

Jim

@Karl A vertual Rover crew sounds like a great idea. I'm sure there are enough of us accross Canada who enjoy computer programing that we could redevelop the entire scout system just with volunteers.

From the point of view of a computer technition you may be unable to save the PDFs because the free version of adoby reader you have does not allow it. Try using foxit reader as a workaround to save the data.

Hello all, A simple way around all this is to "print" to a pdf writer.
http://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp
CutePDF Writer installs itself as a "printer subsystem". This enables virtually any Windows applications (must be able to print) to create professional quality PDF documents - with just a push of a button!
Download the free version of Cutepdf and when you print select 'cute pdf'. it will prompt you for a file name. store it on your hard drive. its that easy.
Jim

Well it would seem that Scouts Canada finally found a way back to the old interactive forms...No that didn't hurt did it