Growing Venturers and Rovers: A Vision

Not all Vocational groups "(seem) to leave out some of the ideals of Scouting, and Rovering in particular."

A qualification of the North Waterloo Med-Vents/Rovers is that the individual has to be registered with and active in an existing Venturer Company/Rover Crew. This way they take part in the Vocational aspect when they are providing first aid service at Scout camps/activities and in the community. But they take part in "traditional" Scouting activities as part of their own Company/Crew. The best of both worlds.

Had the first organizational meeting last night for a new crew in my area. Had five youth at the meeting but I already know there are lots more who will join but just couldn't attend last night. My area will be the sponsor for now but they will look for possible outside sponsors.

We discussed the vocational theme and while there was some mild interest, the main desire expressed last night was to organize and run events for other groups to attend. We discussed the concept of the Saskatchewan Service Corps which received a more positive response. We did discuss the concept of an open/closed group and it appeared that the overwhelming decision was to keep the group open and grow it! The crew is designed as a place where Venturers can go if their home group doesn't run a crew. Additionally, I spoke to the youth about the need for growth and the huge good they can accomplish based on the many hands make light work concept. And while we definitely want a place for existing youth to be able to go, we also talked about the need to bring new youth, those never in scouting, into the crew. One youth has already been doing that and has three co-workers he wants to invite.

I must say that of all the responsibilities and duties I have as an area commissioner, starting a new group is my favourite! The enthusiasm and excitement was awesome.

Garth

I just found this thread and unfortunately it appears it hasn't been active in a few months. I agree with earliest posts that our future is the senior sections. I was a meeting a few years ago when Jacques Moreillon then Secretary General of WOSM told the collection of Canadaian Scouter the same message.
This borders on a Rant so read on at your own risk. I have been a Venturer, Rover, Venturer and Rover Advisor over the years. We have to listen to what Venturers and Rovers tell us about how much time they have for what they want to do. One of my Rover Skips (yes I'm that old) told us what we were going to do one weekend. He found himself at a campsite by himself with a note inviting him to our camp. We have to listen to Makr and other Venturers and Rovers not give them task we think are important. Some will want to get involved in a development project overseas or an outreach project in a remote community in Canada not currently served by Scouting. Some will want to be Scouters or resource persons for Groups. Others wil decide their Crew will find new wilderness adventures. It's their decision.
A university or college Rover Crew is a great idea as long as we don't scare them off with our expectations. The Crew may be a way for busy students to stay connected to Scouting until they graduate and are ready for more commitments. I think we have to protect these Crews from the well meaning old Rovers who want these new Rovers to be just like their image of the ideal Crew.
In my Crew you became a "Service Rover" at 21 and you had no vote in the Crew operations. Service Rovers supported the Crew and the movement but after 21 we were moving on to other roles in Scouting. Rovers has to ensure young adults pass important milestones moving to adult roles.
Venturers are every bit as important as Rovers. In northern BC we have very few Companies but we are finding more interest in vocational Companies where up to 70% of the program is Scouting and 30 to 40% is RCMP related. Currently we are exploring partnerships with Search and Rescue and Coast Guard Auxillary. Scouting offers more program options that some of these organizations can offer on their own. They see the value of being a partner with Scouts Canada in their communities because it will develop the adult volunteers they need. In Prince George the RCMP Venturers receive a secondary school credit for completing the program the local RCMP has developed. Ventuers in BC also get credit for their Queen's Venturer Award.
The Scouting Now Action Plan is all about thinking outside the box. We can make Venturers and Rovers grow if we use our ears first.

Its good to see people are looking at this topic again.

I hear this 70% / 30% a lot! Its such a nice number, but I can't seem to make it add up??

Seventy percent Vocational... hmmmm... is teaching first aid to a Cub group or local Girl Guide group vocational or "Scouting"? What about doing the same thing with a fire extinguisher? Is doing or learning "life saving" vocational or "Scouting"? Would offering service to a Jamboree be Vocational or "Scouting"? Is going on a week long canoe trip and being considered the "first aider", Vocational or "Scouting"? Does "Scouting" only count if it earns the participant an award/badge?

I must be old and confused.. if we have young people who want to join us because they find what we do or offer as exciting and adventurous, shouldn't we embrace it rather than try and minimize it? I know there is a feeling that someone must be part of a "real Scout" group as well as a "Themed" program but that just seems down right silly! If a "real Scout" group isn't offering up any "vocational" development are they truly a "real Scout" group?

It might appear that we just don't want anything new or different. "We" (meaning existing members, especially Leaders) didn't want the new alternative uniforms, so we made a ton of noise, tried to ignore it and stay the "old course", even when it was holding people away from joining. Makes you wonder if this isn't the same narrow thinking?

Sorry for the rant.

Certainly teaching cubs how to react in case of a fire is just as much scouting as teaching scouts to use an axe. It's part of the mission statement. I could go and quote it, but the gist is to make scouts better members of society.

Right now, as I type this, My crew is watching a under-appreciated movie. As a Crew. Let me make that clear. As a crew we made a choice to use one of our meetings to watch a movie. We find that while some of us have time for leadership roles, most of us don't. We use Rovers as a get away vehicle to make time for ourselves as a group. WIthout it we would probably just schedule more work or study time or something. But as a crew, we make the time for ourselves that we at times desperately need. Does that make us Selfish? I certainly don't think so, nor does our group committee.

Is this less Scouting then a crew that is out at the same time going geocaching? Or a Crew that's planning for the Area kubkar Rally? No! Because next week we plan on going wandering around a local wilderness park in the dark and having fun doing it. And the week after we're planning our crew winter camp.

Remember to look at ALL parts of the Scout Promise, Law, Mission statement and motto. Remember that one of the core parts of Scouting is Duty to Self. Something that that often gets ignored in the younger sections. When it's all fundraising and service when half the kids don't even know why they're going to sing Christmas carols at the seniors' home.

I'm new here but I thought I'd add an idea that has been rumbling around in my head for several years.

CAVEAT: I was never a Rover and know very little about the program.

Background:
I work at a University and for several years was a member of the building health & Safety committee. We learned first aid and fire drills and even get to participate in workshops on very basic search and rescue. I live in an earthquake zone and have always tried to "Be Prepared".

I believe that many youth of Rover age are leaving their hometowns and attending college or university and lose touch with Scouting.

The Idea:
Create Rover Crews based at universities and provide them with light urban rescue training sponsored by the university. It would give them a service, a connection to the local community, and a base on which to build the other aspects of the Rover program. It would provide the University or college and the local community with extra trained volunteers for emergency situations.

Anyway, Just thought I'd add it to the mix of ideas.

-Ted

Second, all the local Rover crews in my city will be invited to a dinner get together next month so we can chat, visit, discuss the future and how I can not only support those in my area but use my position to influence changes in the council. .

Garth- I recognize that this post was a while ago- but I don't remember hearing anything about it, and as a rover it makes me wonder who else didn't. Did the dinner go forwards? If so- how did you contact the rovers and how can we make sure everyone is invited in the future? I am assuming of course, that I was not intentionally left off the list, but as far as I am aware, my brother (from a different rover crew) was not invited either. If this did not happen- what can I do to help you make it happen? I'm interested in an Edmonton Rover gathering myself and would love to collaborate.

No it didn't...I started digging up contacts and then things and life and stuff and other events happened and I just never got back to it. I think it's something that desparately needs to happen though. Rovers is the most under-utilized and under-thanked section in ours and every other council.

If you'd like to help spread the word I would be happy to try this again. We just need to decide on the format, the agenda and come up with some goals that we want to accomplish from having such a get-together. There is HUGE potential for increasing Rovers dramatically and I'd like to make it happen.

Garth

I agree that the Venturer and Rover Sections need to have more attention paid to them. Now that the Beavers have a program maybe we can turn our thoughts over to the older youth. This has been our first year having a Venturer Section and I certainly hope that next year is better. As I believe that we are not the only Venturer Company with growing pains, here is my suggestion. When I was in Brownies and Girl Guides we walked over to the local school. When I wanted to go on to Rangers, I was told where they were meeting and the few of us that wanted to go up met up with a bigger group. This was certainly more fun than meeting with just the three of us. We will always have a triangle effect for registration but I think this idea will help to keep the older youth more entertained and interested and allow for more activities to take place. We have to put the youth first and not be so concerned with our own registration numbers.

I think it doesn't matter one bit what you make the official Rover programme. Different crews will do what different crews do, and you can't really stop them. In the Fredericton area, we have two fairly large Rover crews - 1st Rivorton and 5th Fredericton. 1st Rivortoon is programme-focused with a strong executive and filled largely with undergradutes, 5th Fredericton is a service club for a local scouting group that serves to organise some activities for the young leaders at 5th and participate in larger activities without having to look after youth. It has a consitution which limits the power of the executive and serves as a place for leaders to have fun, have some adventure and be a reserve pool of part-time leaders who are checked up with PRCs and references. We have a third crew, St. Margaret's developing, which seems to be more of an adventure crew

Both crews are equally valid and provide good opportunities for their members. They all follow the "programme" in their own way, and, to be frank, you can't really force them to do anything. Challenge them, perhaps. In Ireland, for example, the wanderer award involves a multi-day hike in a foreign country (made easy by having cheap fares to mainland Europe) that requires you to rely on the kindess of others. You get a nice-looking belt out the deal.

It seems to me that different visions of Rovering should be welcomed and accepted, as diversity will only make the activity more interesting. I wish we could link with a vocational crew! If we really wanted the "elite" rovers so desired, bribing people with programme quality awards simply won't work. Having a presitigous annual competition which embodies many of the aspects of scouting will. What certainly won't work is having Ottawa dictate what is and what is not "rovering!"

In light of the upcoming Program Review, I read this thread, and must say that I agree wholeheartedly that the future of Scouting in Canada is found in its senior sections. I would include the Scouts section as well. The biggest drop off in membership is from cubs to scouts, and especially from scouts to venturers. Unless our youth see Venturers and Rovers on a regular basis, and the cool stuff that they get to do, they won't want to be Venturers. I'd love to have a couple of Venturers and Rovers on each of our section's leadership teams. The results would be fabulous.

I'm leading at the junior end of the program now, with a son in Beavers and a daughter in Cubs, but looking at Scouting's potential, its greatest work comes at Scouts and above. This is where kids start becoming adults, and then more. The Cub program is really made to make youth ready for Scouts, in its best form. RakelaK runs a fabulous program that has almost 100% retention, because it treats the youth like junior Scouts, instead of an advanced daycare. Similarly, if we want to keep White Tail Beavers, we have to treat them like junior Cubs. Our Colony has instituted a tent camping program for our Beavers, where we go out twice a year in tents, and we are trying to add a winter camp at Opemikon (cabins). This would get the Beavers to three camps a year (two more than program standard), and about half as many camps as our Cubs. White Tail sleepovers are okay, but it is outdoors and being like older kids that really help with retention.

This whole thread gives some credence to the idea of a progressive badge system from Beavers all the way to Rovers. The kids will look from the age of 5 to Rovers as the mountain top of youth Scouting, instead of only to the next section.

John Simpson and Steve in Thunder Bay, I sure hope that you guys are on the program review teams for these sections. Your comments bear serious consideration by those teams.